from Independent
Once again, Anon makes an important point about the core workings of our economy. When I was in college, my professor took the class to Sturbridge Village to make this same point. Like the little town in Texas, it is a microcosm of the broader economy.
Economists call this concept the “Velocity” of the money supply - the speed at which money moves through the economy is as important as the total supply of money in the economy. So, “Moneterists” traditionally believed modulation of the cash supply is a sufficient tool to expand or contract growth in the economy, as needed, depending on its Velocity.
“Fiscalists” or “Keynesians” traditionally believed that it is the total amount of spending that matters, and that growth must be modulated through the expansion or contraction of government spending.
The “ISLM Framework” resolved this theoretical divide in the 1960’s, providing a hybrid theoretical framework that accommodates both concepts. This common ground was generally supported by both sides.
What changed beginning in the 1980’s was the rise of classical economists and their theory of pure free market principles to the securities markets; i.e., the belief that all security prices were by definition priced correctly in an open market. The theoretical work of these academics was picked up by key players in the capital markets and politicians and policymakers who favored government deregulation. This became the basis for deregulation of the financial markets and the failure to regulate new financial instruments like derivatives.
This utterly naive belief, of course, ignored ingredients necccesary to free market principles, including the extreme complexity of the instruments; the blind greed of investors that has always been the basis for the boom/bust speculative nature of financial markets; and the lack of availability and comprehension of information. There are a lot of free market academics out there who have run like hell away from their own teachings after this debacle.
So keeping money supply (M-1) growth consistent with economic growth to provide price stability is the primary role of the Fed. Modulation of M-! and interest rate adjustments can expand or contract cash and credit in the economy to smooth out expansions and contractions at the margin. Fiscal policy is a blunter, broader tool and can be used to counter either a too-rapid expansion or, more likely, to counter a recession.
In the last 18 months the Fed and Congress have used all of these tools to get the financial system, the capital markets and the economy under control. This is major surgery for sure. But the basic productive nature of our system; our educational system; our system of technological innovation; our entrepreneurial spirit; and (once properly stabilized and regulated) our capital markets system has not and will not dry up and blow away. We have a tough couple of years - and the need to address our entitlement programs in the out years is critical - and we will be on our way again.
Just as we have done over and over through our modern history.




I think its pretty clear the RTC dumped Corden precisely because he insisted on some equitable allocation of education resources between the Academy and the public schools. I don’t think there is any doubt about it. So I guess I agree with WVG on this point. I think Ford and the others are kidding themselves about this - I don’t know why.
Frank took a principled stand on these funding issues and it reflects very poorly on the RTC that they dumped him. But it is also true that Frank strongly supported the independence of the Academy and strongly opposed the legislative effort to alter its board governance.
The DTC has done the same thing under its new leadership that the RTC has done. Anyone who even raises the issue of balanced education funding within the town - which seems to be common sense to me - may as well go run for dog-catcher in New Mexico.
As important is a message for Admin. With the possible exception of your own titillation, why do you allow people like Wetzel and WVG to make these malicious personalized attacks here? What value do they add? Why would you expect anyone of intelligence to contribute here only to be treated this way? Since it is quite clear you use your editorial powers to ultimately ban these people, and sometimes people who disagree with you, why not exercise your powers at the beginning, when these people first show up? I mean do you think anyone wants to read this crap?
Independent,
Thank you for the two excellent articles. I enjoyed reading them. Most of all thank you for changing the subject to something more palatable.
I am sold on the need for solid financial reform and the development of a strong Consumer Financial Protection Agency. I am distraught by the lack of Republican efforts to help pass strong reform legislation.
I read an interesting editorial last week which mentioned that even Adam Smith, the father of free-market economics, recognized the need for regulation. He apparently argued that bank regulation was as “necessary as fire codes on urban buildings.” I certainly agree with this. In light of the recent economic events, who wouldn’t?? I recognize now that my naive blathering about libertarian free markets never took into consideration greed (and stupidity).
So I fear that its politics as usual in Washington. The quest to undermine political opposition in order to gain a selfish advantage supercedes doing what is right for our country and its people. I find this extremely frustrating, but moreso, I am sadly bewildered by the fact that the populist tea party group has yet to identify the issue of financial reform as an effort worth fighting for. I don’t get.
Independent,
I don’t think there is any question that Frank’s principles have not ingratiated him with certain special interests in town. However, there is a long way between that and Frank being thrown off the ballot by “all of the Republicans, not just the RTC”. It’s that claim, and similar ones like it, that have caused us to take WVG to task. I’ve met some very nice Republicans in town and many of them support Frank.
Thanks,
Kevin
This post represents my personal opinions and in no way should be considered an official act of the BoE or that I am speaking on behalf of the BoE in any way.
Independent, Taxpayer, Con and all others who seem to be routinely participating in a number of thoughtful discussions,…(see Frank’s new article. Admin).
Independant:
I imagine it is difficult to maintain a site like this. Censorship can and should be, at times, avoided at all costs, and at times, necessary to maintain the integrity of such a site. What one person considers to be a malicious attack could be argued to be a valid point of contention.
I try to be rational and reasonable in my real life and listen to what people say. Sometimes I just nod my head and walk away.
It may also be beneficial for people to read the anger and insults that are offered up here when some people make statements. When people rant, curse, sling insults and slogans, others can usually see their posts for what they are.
Well Kevin, I know a whole lot more Republicans in town than you do you and a very large majority of those did not support putting Frank back on the ballot for another term on the Board of Education. You and I must travel in different circles. You’re a Democrat Kevin, I’m a Republican. Basically, the inner workings of our party is none of your business no more than the inner workings of your now dysfunctional DTC are any of mine. I don’t even know who your Town Chairman is and I don’t care.
WVG,
Such partisan arguments don’t hold a lot of currency with me. How people get nominated for public office is in the interest of all citizens, particularly at the local level where party politics don’t have the same meaning. I have spoken to a few people on the RTC who have a very different outlook on things than you do. From an outsiders perspective there is a philosophical battle happening within the RTC and such change from the status quo (to borrow one of Taxpayers favorite phrases) is a good thing.
Of course we both suffer from confirmation bias. We both tend to be exposed to people who think similarly to how we already do. That is why you have no idea how such a primary would have turned out, nor do I. There was no poll done and the rank and file majority, who generally keep their heads down, may be thinking something very differently than either one of us believes.
This was illustrated in a very clear way last year when a particular group in town advanced a referendum to unseat the BoE based on what they were hearing from their circle. One mistake they made was by believing that since their circle thought that way, the majority of voters would think similarly. They got a bit of a surprise when it actually reached the polls.
Thanks,
Kevin
This post represents my personal opinions and in no way should be considered an official act of the BoE or that I am speaking on behalf of the BoE in any way.
Kevin is correct. We cannot judge based on conjecture or opinion, but rather, only on the process. If you understand the nominating/endorsing process, then it is easy to understand why WVG was wrong in his statements. Frank Corden was not “kicked off the ballot by all of the Republicans” because there was never a caucus of “all Republicans” to ever make that decision. WVG does not understand the difference between speculation and process, but uses speculation to try and substantiate a point. Only the ignorant fall for such tactics. But my feeling here is that WVG knows this and is just jerking us around for the sport of it. This is why I agree with Independent that WVG should be removed from the site the second this starts occuring. There is no placating someone like him and there is no benefit to the rest of us in trying.
1) FREE SPEECH: Regarding ‘removing’ anyone from the site, I’m against it for all the classic Free Speech reasons we’ve all heard before. I can certainly understand applying standards to a given comment (like newspapers do, for example) and those ‘Rules’ are already in place. Readers here are not ‘captive’ in any way and, seeing comment from anyone they wish was Removed, any reader can simply Stop Reading.
2) FREE MARKETS: Another Free Market issue that was largely ignored until recently (though it still is in many cases) is understanding and ‘capturing’ the FULL cost of any enterprise or endeavor - often many costs are ignored because they are non-traditional or widely disbursed or extremely difficult to Capture (like how much it costs to NOT fix an accelerator pedal in a car). An easy and non-controversial example is coal burning plants - these plants initially stated their cost as X, Y and Z, but completely left out the Environmental costs we all bear from the massive Pollution created by these plants and their true cost to all of us. There are many similar examples, like Banking, with much less-clear (or agreed upon) costs.
A True Free Market captures ALL of these costs and includes them where they belong - on the Financial Statements of the given business, right above/below other traditional costs and expenses. Of course, as the Super-Fund Sites in Pollution Law has taught us, sometimes these costs far exceed the total enterprise value of a given business (often by several multiples). Such a business enterprise is ultimately a net loss (sometimes an enormous loss) for Society.
As I said to WVG, this site does not ‘ban’ people nor censor what is written, except for comments which clearly break the stated Rules. I had said “unlike the other site, this site takes comments from anyone…” - to back up this statement, I can tell you that I have been submitting a comment over and over to woodstocktruth.com for over a week (about once every other day) and they seemingly REFUSE to post my comment (I guess because it completely deflates a very silly assertion that those folks may believe - propaganda, really). The Comment has been submitted under the Article Titled: “If We Are to Focus on Education- Baran, Lustila and Shipman Must Go” in which it is asserted that Woodstock’s payments to the Law Firm represents a “Billing Bonanza” and this makes their legal advice ‘highly suspect’. January’s Bill was a record high at over $17,000. Someone didn’t do their homework when writing that rediculous statement and I countered with the following (Submitted by Con to woodstocktruth.com several times this past 10 days):
“The writer can’t be serious that legal advice from this particular firm would be “highly suspect” for the reasons given. The assertion that “…any advice from this firm going forward is highly suspect considering their history of involvement in the crusades and what continues to appear to be a billing bonanza.” is ridiculous on it’s face to anyone familiar with how Law Firms run, the rules of Ethics and Professional Responsibility and the risk involved in breaking these Rules - it actually seems to imply that such ‘suspect’ advice is part and parcel of an ongoing conspiracy to deceive and cover-up.
Truly, now - is one assertion of this Article that legal advice from this Law Firm is truly “highly suspect” because Woodstock paid them $17,227.50 in a single month (while an extremely large sum for Woodstock, no argument) and this represents a bona fide “billing bonanza” to them!?! Really? Enough so that they are willing to risk breaking, or they outright break, certain Rules of Professional Responsibility and Ethics and thereby put the ENTIRE Firm - a Firm with 4 Offices and 130 Attorneys - at risk for a scandal which would simply ruin them outright? The Rules of Professional Responsibility and Ethics are codified into law and Legal Malpractice is clearly identified and defined, as are the associated Penalties.
A low estimated average income for that Firm is $2,275,000.00 Per Month. Is this write truly asking anyone to believe that $17,227.50 out of over $2 Million represents a “Billing Bonanza” to this Firm AND is enough money for these Attorneys, necessarily acting together, to engage in a criminal conspiracy and collectively break the law? Are we expected to believe it?”
I have no interest in parsing WVG’s words, or refining interpretation of state election law. I am just making the point - which seems undeniable - that the RTC nominated Rosendahl and then two years later refused to re-nominate Corden for the same reason - the Academy wanted it that way. References to “all Republicans” or “philosophical divides” or expressions of doubt by a few RTC members are irrelevant. This is what the RTC is there for and they are legally empowered to do it. No point in papering over the fact.
JK, WVG’s statement below that someone should “blow it out their a__” can hardly be considered a “valid point of contention”. All I am saying is there should be a limit to the abuse anyone has to put up with here as the price of participation. And it is clear Admin has used their editorial powers frequently and inconsistently - allowing threatening language, crude humor. etc. ad nauseum, and then banning those who disagree with his positions or practices. Stop defending the indefensible in the name of “free speech” - its silly.
Con, you are right. These are called “externalities” by economists, but they are considered imperfections of the market system, not a part of it. Government intervention (environmental regulation in the case of pollution) are required to address these areas of market failure. Further to your point, in a fascinating quote, the former CEO of Exxon Europe stated “Socialism failed as an economic system because it did not allow the price of goods and services to reflect their true value. Capitalism may fail as an economic system because it does not provide for the price of goods and services to reflect their true cost”.
Indenpendent and I have a different view on this and given our history of different views, it’s not surprising. While he hasn’t been around for a while, given past experience no amount of back and forth will reconcile our differences in opinion.
I’m sorry if I have you confused with someone else but I don’t think so. Taxpayer will be happy to see you are back.
Thanks,
Kevin
This post represents my personal opinions and in no way should be considered an official act of the BoE or that I am speaking on behalf of the BoE in any way.
Individuals do not have to be banned from participating on this website, but certain language certainly could be censored, particularly when it is directed at other individuals.
Therefore, freedom of speech is preserved so long as the right to dignity toward others is respected with the same zeal.
That’s the other side to this argument which is not being adressed.
Why are the rights to free speech overriding the rights to dignity?
This is essentially the same hypocritical pattern of argument (with different terms of course) that is used by those who dismiss the need for zoning regulation in the name of property rights. Or for that matter, by those who dismiss the need for financial regulation in the name of free markets. These arguments pretend to take a high road when, in fact, they are either ignorantly shortsighted or intentionally exploited for selfish reasons.
Regardless, a disproportionate weight given to one virtue at the cost of another is a zero sum game. Don’t fool yourself.
Taxpayer,
I guess you missed the part where you have the power, means and clear ‘advance notice’ to NOT read certain posts if you think the named commenter will use language which will somehow compromise your dignity.
In a non-captive audience situation, Free Speech vs. Dignity is NOT zero-sum. Your suppositions ignore many important elements. Tossing around words like ‘hypocritical pattern of argument’ are equally meaningless without your best back up - the more severe the comment, the stronger the back-up ought to be to prevent you appearing to be expressing merely your narrow opinion…
Let me state the obvious for a moment-freedom of speech provides citizens the right to express their opinions without interference form the government (obviously there are exceptions, but that’s not my point). The 1st amendment does not prohibit an admin of a web site from deleting posts for whatever reason (until we get into election laws I suppose).
WVG seems to know that John is not going to censor much, lest WVG decry that this site does not allow people with differing opinions to post.
WVG also seems to know that it is human nature to respond to the insults, unsupported statements, and taunts she/he is tossing around.
In other words, WVG is still trolling and folks are still taking the bait. Makes for a good read now and again, but it gets old.
But I did support my argument (strongly) by comparing it to the logic behind resisting zoning or financial regulation (two topics we have discussed on the cafe with some rigor). Can you refute that the flawed logic that is often used with these topics doesn’t parallel the logic behind upholding freedom of speech while disregarding the right to respect in another? Because of this flawed logic, choosing free speech over protecting dignity is a zero sum game in certain situations.
Another example of this is the condoning of racist remarks in the name of free speech. I don’t think you would do it. So then, why take the leap and pretend that a racist remark (which is unacceptable) is different than any other kind of language that is slanderous? You walk a slippery slope when you start stretching the rights for free speech without considering the rights of those on the receiving end of racism, bigotry, or slander.
At some point the line needs to be drawn in the sand, and I believe that this is what Indie is referring to.
As far as simply ignoring commentary that is offensive, certainly you make a point. But easier said then done. This is a public forum and when false slanderous language is allowed, a person’s reputation can be at stake, particularly when the person doing the slandering is allowed anonymity! Again, this is a double standard. Its hard to just ignore this and not reply in defense. Such was the case with WVG’s comments against F.C.
Listen, I totally know that your intentions are good and noble, so don’t take this personally. I’m just trying to give some perspective. I don’t have all the answers so I tend to resort to throwing all angles of an argument out for discussion. I think it helps and is valuable for all of us.
This has nothing to do with the legal concept of free speech - this self-righteous defense is a complete misnomer. There are a lot of people in Woodstock who do not contribute here because of the crude, ignorant and offensive nature of the comments they must read in response. And Admin has intervened to block many people’s comments - I don’t hear anyone denying this - so claims to a totally open forum are inconsistent with actual practice.
Kevin, you have a terrible habit of drawing broad conclusions from your own very limited information. Talking to “a few Republicans” when there are almost 2,000 registered in Woodstock provides a poor indication of what they all believe. The RTC has already gone through the philosophical evolution the past ten years that you are looking forward to, and has subsequently devolved back to its very conservative origins. A few people grumbling about this does not resolve the problem of the K-8 system being torn between Prop 46 and the Academy’s ambitious growth - this grumbling has gone on for decades.
‘Independent’ has a long history of demanding editing of Cafe articles … to suit his own needs and preferences.
Independent,
You stated, “Talking to “a few Republicans” when there are almost 2,000 registered in Woodstock provides a poor indication of what they all believe.” See we can agree on something. That was exactly the point to WVG that I have been making for two weeks now.
Thanks,
Kevin
This post represents my personal opinions and in no way should be considered an official act of the BoE or that I am speaking on behalf of the BoE in any way.
Regarding editorial policy, I do think that it is an important discussion because it is one of the most crucial factors to consider when deciding what type of media site you want to be. …(see Kevin’s new article. Admin).
Kevin - That’s exactly right. That is my point. It is inconsistent for you to criticize WVG for drawing an overly broad conclusion from very limited information - and then do the same thing yourself.
You interpreted WVGs statement literally that “all Republicans” gave Corden the boot, and continue basing your position on this technical point of language. But when I read WVG’s comment originally, I did not interpret it literally, but figuratively, as with “Everyone loves ice cream”. Following the analogy, talking to a few eskimos that do not like ice cream very much would not prove that most people dislike ice cream.
I would accept the result of the nominating process at face value. The nominating committee acted based on the direction of the full RTC, which could have overridden the committee and nominated Corden, but did not. I would also accept that the RTC probably represents the views of most Republicans they are elected to represent. I look at it and conclude Frank is a very smart, energetic guy who got involved, realized that what was going on was wrong, and refused to compromise a principled position in the face of political pressure. This may not be a perfectly accurate interpretation, but it is certainly a reasonable one. I really don’t know why this is so controversial with you.
Your inference that somehow Corden was illegitimately run out of the party by a renegade group of Republicans seems highly unlikely. You seem to believe there is a “silent majority” of Republicans on the RTC or in town who support Frank’s position on the Academy/K-8 funding balance, but you provide no evidence of this. I don’t think your wishful thinking provides a solution of this problem. And I don’t know why you believe you have a monopoly on interpretation of these events.
As an aside, it doesn’t matter who I am. What matters is the logic and support I provide for my positions. It is quite hypocritical for you, who have frequently lectured others at length about the proper form of debate and the value of anonymity to suddenly abandon these premises to comment on “who this person is”. I mean, hello?
Then again, I guess if you could support your position, you would have.
Sorry Independent, I read WVG’s post differently from you but I never stated a conclusion on what would have happened if a vote occurred or even offered an opinion on how it would have gone. …(see Kevin’s new article. Admin).