Hope to see a crowd Thursday
from Ken Rapoport
Can I say- “here we go again?” Many of the same cast of characters on PZC today that were present back in 2004 when Douglas Builders were attempting develop an 8 lot subdivision off Pulpit Rock adjacent to a steep gradient. If that had passed-we would have already had a highway with double yellow line along the entire length of the road!
Nonetheless, I am happy to announce since that time- close to 150 acres along Pulpit Rock are in the process of gaining permanent conservation status with Wyndham Land Trust. One parcel was donated in memory of my wife who died of colon cancer in 2000 at the age of 42- called the “Linda J Rapoport Memorial Preserve”. And recently, Avis Spaulding helped facilitate another 50+ acre donation to Wyndham Land Trust which will be called the “Spaulding Family Preserve” If you really want to know what Pulpit Rock Road looked like 200+ years ago- take a walk down the abandoned Caulkins Road- with best access off Joy Road- but it also intersects Pulpit Rock! This old abandoned road will eventually be protected forever by Wyndham Land Trust. Many of these roads follow original Native American trails!
If Woodstock wanted to really take advantage of its natural assets-why wouldn’t we consider making Pulpit Rock Road (or other scenic roads?) “Primary pedestrian access” (walk, bike, horse have primary right of way)- in this case connect it to Sweet Evalina’s, Bowen House, Woodstock Inn, and maybe even further down to Woodstock Fair Grounds? We certainly wouldn’t need to pave or use ground up asphalt -save money in maintenance and would probably increase the value of our entire community.
Properly managed land use (hello PZC and Board of Selectmen?) like Scenic Roads create increased value for everyone in town.
Ordinances are similar to laws – so why can our public representatives not take the time to follow them? It is just frustrating to have our elected representatives not following the rules! So, again, we need have petitions and wait for the “public comments” section of a meeting – to hold them accountable for upholding our laws! But what I miss even more are the “sneers and smirks” of some board members when the public does comment – because really folks – who really knows best?!
Hope to see a crowd Thursday
THanks ken. I guess this says it all: “Ordinances are similar to laws – so why can our public representatives not take the time to follow them? It is just frustrating to have our elected representatives not following the rules! So, again, we need have petitions and wait for the “public comments” section of a meeting – to hold them accountable for upholding our laws! “
so sad. so true. public does know best but no one is listening.
A thought or two about the dirt road issue. …(see Dorinda’s new article. Admin).
I can’t believe the outrage at progress. Home and property insurance costs will go down if the road is paved. I live on a dirt road and it was difficult to even find an insurance company that would take us on because of this preexistant condition of living on a dirt road. The reason is it is difficult for fire and rescue to respond.Again is is easy to point out the hypocrisy of you progressives, especially a day after Presindent Obama listed the 111 unions that were granted a waiver from the healthcare bill. It is orwellian, “no animals shall live in the house’ then as time goes on and a line added”except the pigs”. Your socialism has failed every time it was tried,, usually at the peril of millions of lives. We can actually see in real time the failure of socialism in France,Greece, Ireland,Portugal etc..I am with you on the not paving of the road, it is a beautiful country road and would become a cut through for drivers. Which is the real reason I believe the petition was started, and is not on this web site.
Change:
The notion that change is good or bad is not the major issue. There appears to be an ordinance that is being ignored. I have no dog in this fight, but it concerns me nevertheless that the proper legal steps to make changes aren’t being followed.
Isn’t it funny JK, how the local snarks like to drop nasty grams that fly in the face of reason-and never stick around to argue or defend their “claims”-a bunch of cowards that pander to the Glenn Beck-watching ignorant.
Boy you obamunists hate glenn beck. It is very funny. You use hatred to try to silience Beck and Limbaugh . You ignore facts and use propaganda to try to fool people. If your healthcareplan is so great, why grant exemptions to the same union thugs who showed up to assault and shout down those opposed to it? Even here at the woodstock/ Courtney meeting, the purple shirted thugs were bussed in to intimmidate the citizens. snark huh/ Maybe i can have an exemption like the unions
Ignore the facts?
The fact that 45 million are uninsured? The fact that the rate in rise in healthcare costs, if left unchecked, will cripple our country’s economy? The fact that prior to reform children with pre-existing diseases could be denied coverage? Others could be dropped when they get sick? The fact that insurance companies are making $$$ hand over fist? The fact that premiums and deductibles are getting so expensive that the working class has little options except for catastrophic healthcare coverage? The fact that Republicans did whatever they could to keep this status quo? The fact that the President Obama and the Democrats lacked the courage to pass single-payer healthcare which is the truest way to cut costs?
Which facts am I ignoring and what propoganda am I pushing? Because, frankly, I think I’ve covered them all and if you think this is propaganda then you are as dumb as Glenn Beck.
I want to thank PZC for passing a motion for a moratorium on utilizing “ground up asphalt” on designated scenic dirt roads….(see Ken’s new article. Admin).
The tax exemptions the unions received are temporary until 2018 for their Cadillac health care plans and is the normal wheeling and dealing we see constantly to get legislation passed. This has been common for both parties. In order to control health care costs the Cadillac plans have to go. They have until 2018 to get in line or be subject to the 40% tax. When these plans are eliminated it will be good for everyone as they are unsustainable. The fact of the matter is that it wouldn’t matter to the vast majority of Americans if they personally had the same exemption or not because they don’t have Cadillac health care plans to be subject to the tax.
Yes, ear marks, exemptions for political reasons and special deals all stink. Unfortunately due to our political system it seems to be about the only way to get any legislation passed. It isn’t a reflection on the core of the legislation itself, but instead on our political system of special interests from all sides of the spectrum.
Thanks,
Kevin
What is missing from list of rasons not to pave Pulpit Road is the truth. The socialist elites want private road status at the publics’expense. They wish to keep the great unwashed off their road. Fine, let them who live on it be responsible for the upkeep and plowing. And this kos tries to use typical leftist propaganda attack points on Glenn Beck; call him a racist, cut phrases out of context and paste together but can not put together any substance to debate him.John Stewart/ keith Olbermann rhetoric leaves the most important issue out of any conversation, the facts.Just like this Pulpit Rock debate, they leave the real reason out of the subject.These same radicals spent thousands and wasted thousands of hours trying to prevent Wal-Mart from opening in Brooklyn. People are waking up and realize you progressives are the enemy of our country.We see in your own words”top down, bottom up and inside out” Thankyou Mr. Beck for exposing the anti American socialists for whaty they are.
Wow – did this thread ever take a few detours…
As to the original discussion – It is fair to question the cost of maintaining a dirt road versus a paved road. However, since there is an ordinance in place, like it or not, the ordinance takes precedence over cost. If there are enough people in town who are willing to take the steps to change the ordinance, then like it or not, pave away. The correct outcome for now, legally, is that the road(s) stay as it (as they are).
As to Glenn Beck, John Stewart, and other national figures, I’m at least a bit skeptical. They may actually believe what they say, but it could be that they are just after ratings. In either case, I’m hesitant to give anyone with a politically biased show much credence.
As to Cadillac health care plans…
There was a time when public sector employees, particularly teachers, received painfully small paychecks. At that time, good health care insurance was relatively inexpensive. As a result, “Cadillac” health insurance became the norm for public sector employees.
Over time, public sector salaries have become, depending on whom you ask, competitive, realistic, exorbitant, stupid, just right….
At the same time, insurance premiums have skyrocketed. Even when Clinton was first elected, Zoe Baird, and Aetna exec. took a huge sum of money to leave Aetna in search of a cabinet post that she never got. In the more recent past, BC?BS went form providing insurance to looking for a healthy profit.
You can point at public sector employees/unions and blame them, but it important to remember why unions gained so much power in the public sector. Taxpayers have the most power, as do politicians, at the local level. Since CT pays so many public employees at the local level, particularly teachers, it is very tempting to slash teacher salaries. Note that I did not mention withholding raises, but slashing salaries.
For a time, teachers were getting no raises, and some even went to jail over contracts. Binding arbitration, minimum salaries, and higher standards changed teacher salaries and contract negotiations. Lately, teachers’ unions have been agreeing to a one year pay freeze and increased insurance costs. Given the past 15-20 years of steady benefit increases, teachers aren’t complaining.
So long story short, we need to find a balance between the tax base and the costs of public services.
The dirt roads in Woodstock are public, therefore open for all to enjoy.
The collective funding to provide public services such as road maintenance, fire protection, public education,etc. are a means to care for, protect, and invest in a community. The term “socialism” has been applied to this basic form of governing with a negative implication, yet it is the anarchical absence of these governing services that define a society as uncivilized. Its ironic, then, that being civilized is labeled as anti-American, while the promotion of disorder is considered patriotic. Progressives seek to put this false propaganda into perspective, not only to conserve civilized society but to progress it in a way that maximizes its advantages, its efficiency and its protection for all, not just for a small few.
It is sad that many equate this socialism as something that is inherently bad, while the opposite, which seeks to exploit people for profit is considered good.
Fanatical conservatives who seek to undermine the civility created by socialism have branded these efforts as anti-American with the intent to merely spread fear as a means to control voter behavior- without providing a logical explanation of how a society can be governed fairly without it. In this manner, the fanatics cause great harm to a community, especially when they seek short-term fiscal fixes without recognizing their long term fiscal implications (in other words, being penny-wise pound-foolish).
Unfortunately its the fanatics who show up at board meetings and involve themselves more actively in politics. Moderates and liberals stay home, sit on their hands, and guess what? The idiot fanatics win in a “representative democracy” every time. In winning, they are given a soap box to further perpetuate their false hoods and ideological inconsistencies. Now they even have Fox news to do their bidding.
“The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence.” [Elbert Hubbard]
Dirt roads are a much larger liability to a county than paved roads. The cost of upkeep and maintenance is higher and the cost of property damage to vehicles traveling over them is higher. These are proven facts.
It sounds to me like you have people in your county who passed an ordinance for misguided personal and sentimental reasons which ultimately costs more for all citizens.
Do you people pass ordinances against painting lines on roads, erecting street signs, street lights and guard rails just because you don’t like the looks of them and to hell with public safety?
I’m glad I don’t live in your county and when you retire to down here near Myrtle Beach you can keep your selfish ideas up north with you because you’d be laughed out of the county with ideas like that if you even mentioned that here.
And maybe we should just go back to having slaves Brad, because hired workers are such an expensive liability. And those silly civil rights laws, let’s just scrap them-way too expensive to enforce. While were at it, let’s get rid of public education, social security and medicare too. And screw any nuclear armament treaties-national security is a waste of money. God will take care of all of us, right Brad?? But just in case he doesn’t, let’s give the rich a huge tax break.
Yes, the proud citizens of Myrtle Beach would never spend $750k in taxpayer dollars to purchase a historic train station. They would just let the building be torn down and paved over in the name of progress. They certainly wouldn’t spend tax money on a more expensive building for personal and sentimental reasons… Those kinds of selfish preservation ideas would never occur to a resident of Myrtle Beach, they’d be laughed out of the county… LOL
http://www.cityofmyrtlebeach.com/depot.html
Thanks,
Kevin
Brad:
How lucky were you to stumble upon this site
I am sure you have many of the same types in your town as we do here.
Only could our wacky daily Kos go straight from dirt roads to slavery.
How do you know when you have won an argument
with a socialist? When he calls you a racist!
Woodstock has 99%+ paved roads and the ones that are not are historical and picturesque.
Also they are secondary roads with little traffic, so public safety is not compromised.
There has always been a struggle to keep things from changing here, that stubborn mindset should not be confused with the NIMBY crowd in this case. (Which is alive and well in Woodstock) The dirt roads and open space is one of the things that makes Woodstock a great place to live.
Db
Good work Kevin. Brad is a hypocrite.
Brownie- Two simple questions for you, who called Brad a racist and where is there a stubborn mindset in this situation? Please enlighten us-or is this just a typical case of your usual bumper sticker hyperbole?
Mention slavery in an argument ?? Please…
Stubborn mindset is everywhere in Woodstock. I think it
should be embraced.
And it’s dbrownie not brownie.
Db
Too bad that the “stubborn mindset” wasn’t at the Selectman’s meeting when they flippantly decided to ignore the town ordinance on scenic roads. Eh, Brownie?
The end result was positive so I would say it did work. When ever our leaders are wrong corrections must be made, just as we are now seeing on a national level.
Please call me dbrownie not brownie, there is a difference.
Db
dbrownie,
The end result was achieved by a group of observant, concerned, and diligent citizens who were savvy enough to challenge the Selectmen’s edict. If they hadn’t, the actions on Pulpit Rock Rd. would have likely continued. We are fortunate that there are a few PNZ members with some common sense who were not afraid to challenge the Selectmen.
I agree with you that this must happen at the national level as well, where concerned citizens speak up and expose the Republican party for what they really are- a bunch of corporatist obstructionists, and expose the Democrats for what they are- a bunch of spineless politicians who are willing to forfeit their progressive ideals at the drop of a coin.
My apologies for giving you a hard time, but I don’t suffer fools gladly.
I enjoy back and forth but must you thow out an insult every time?
Name calling seems beneath you.
I am happy that common sense prevailed in my town. Maybe some good will
come of this and more of our roads will become protected.
As for the national parties … I feel they have a lot in common with each other.
Enjoy the holiday!
Db
Kevin, can you read English and read a map? Myrtle Beach is in SOUTH Carolina, I’m in North Carolina, you must not get out much. As far as that train depot if you had taken time to actually read the article, you would have found that most of that money was raised with private funds. I see you Yankees have a real nice Connecticut Eastern Railroad Museum up near you. How did they pay for that ridiculous roundhouse reconstruction project, with public dollars or private funds?
As usual kos is uninformed and resorting to name calling which is typical for an obnoxious liberal. He’d be even more insufferable down here in North Carolina where the Democrats got a good old fashioned ass kicking in the last election. The State Senate here went Republican for the first time since reconstruction, they retained their majority in the House and the Democrat Governor Bev Perdue will be defeated in 2012.
Kos, if you feel so inclined to support the liberal cause down here, I can hook you up with a cheap rental on a real nice double wide on a good old fashioned dirt road out in the rural part of Brunswick County so you can work on Bev’s campaign in 2012. She really needs committed and dedicated people like you to carry the torch for her against those “corporatist obstructionists.” C’mon Kos, Bev needs you in the worst way.
dbrownie,
How nice of you to NOW make the claim that “I am happy that common sense prevailed in my town.”
When just a few blogs ago, you stated:
“There has always been a struggle to keep things from changing here, that stubborn mindset should not be confused with the NIMBY crowd in this case. (Which is alive and well in Woodstock)”
So the very citizens that brought common sense to the table and corrected the misguided actions of the selectmen, you were calling NIMBY’s just a few days ago. Which is it DB?
And John, who had rightly noted the enrichment that our scenic byways bring to Woodstock, now states that he supports what you have said! This is what I said “We at the Cafe like hearing other points of view and your opinion is shared by many in Woodstock” just so you can’t get away with mis-staking what others have said. J
You are both being hypocritical and guilty of speaking out both sides of your mouth.
Ah, we are beginning to see Brad’s true colors- which are coincidentally quite similar to the other snarky nuts we have in this town that haunt the cafe in similar manner. The same people who would rather save a penny now only to lose a dollar later. Who would pave over our scenic roads, run the schools into the ground, prevent any kind of formidable zoning, yet lavish whatever monies it takes to fund any of their special interests.
Kos, I think it’s important that you state names of those PZC members who you feel do good work and those who do not. PZC, like any other board in town, is a collection of individuals. We need to know which members support town ordinances and which do not. thank you
Brad,
I only read what you posted here. The only time the term “Carolina” has been used in this thread, North or South, is in the post I am now responding to. Prior to that the only information you had given as to your location on this thread was “near Myrtle Beach”. From checking other threads I see that you mentioned North Carolina but you shouldn’t assume that people will read all posts in all threads before responding to you.
As for the article, that some of the money was raised privately in no way alters the fact that $750k in public funds were expended. People near you are willing to spend taxpayer dollars for historic preservation.
Based on your living in North Carolina near Myrtle Beach I’m guessing Brunswick county and yes they spend taxpayer dollars for preservation of things deemed to be of historic interest there to.
http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20101004/articles/101009847
If this is not where you live, please let us know where you do so we can check out your claim. Of course up here we spend tax dollars for things like the Railroad Museum, we do it all the time. Then again I’m not the one claiming that my fellow residents would laugh anyone out of the county who wants to spend tax dollars for “misguided personal and sentimental reasons which ultimately costs more for all citizens.” That was your claim.
Thanks,
Kevin
John says:
November 22nd, 2010 at 12:22 pm
“Brad, Thanks for putting up with Kos. Don’t take him too seriously.”
John says:
November 22nd, 2010 at 5:23 pm
“From the beginning I read Brad’s comments as sincere. And I agree with DBrownie’s statement.”
Not meaning to take your words out of context John, but you did make these (above) statements which led me to conclude (if I were to take them at face value) that you sympathize with Brad, are in agreement with db, and that my arguments are not to be taken seriously.
Perhaps I was wrong in making those assumptions, but let’s not throw out principles just to protect diverse opinions. As we are now seeing, Brad is the one not to be taken seriously (thanks Kevin!) and db is a hypocrite speaking out of both sides of his mouth-who only comes to this website to drop Glenn Beck style bumper-sticker bombs while indignantly wondering why he gets no respect.
Kevin, once again you either don’t know hhow to read or cannot comprehend the simplest of concepts. The blog posting you found discusses a SURVEY that was commissioned to identify properties, not one dollar was spent on “preserving” any property referenced in that blog posting as you wrongly claim.
Are you normally this unreasonable and insufferable or do you only reserve your ignorance to start trouble on blogs? I can’t imagine you behaving like this as an elected official.
Wrong again Kos.
Brad,
You might want to read a little further into the article:
“In September 2009, county commissioners approved a $50,000 contract to conduct a comprehensive study of historic architecture around the county.”
That would be taxpayer money being spent for the purpose of assisting in preservation. As the article states:
“Besides being useful for research, the survey will also allow the county to plan developments while preserving historic areas and help property owners who have restored historic buildings, said Claudia Brown of the State Historic Preservation Office. She said state and federal tax credits are available for rehabilitation projects.”
If a government agency is spending money to assist in planning for the preservation of historic areas, I’d argue most reasonable people would conclude that they just spent money for the purpose of preservation.
Thanks!
Kevin
P.S., you must be spending a lot of time on this site to know I’m an elected official: I haven’t mentioned it for a while. I’m glad that you find Woodstock politics interesting enough to read a lot of the blog! Come on up and visit sometime. We’re doing a great turducken this year.
LOL funny!
Brad is surely starting to sound like a Woodstocker gone south for the season.
Wow! $50,000 contract to do a comprehensive study of historic architecture!
Kevin, could you imagine how that would fly in Woodstock??
Good for the people in Brunswick County who had the gumption and integrity to win over the cheapskates like Brad who’d just assume pave over all their historic sites so they could live on the cheap.
Wonder if Brad and all his cronies are laughing now?
And thanks to Kevin Ford. Wish all of our elected officials acted with the grace and integrity that he does- not afraid of giving voice to principles and putting them before politics.
Kevin doesn’t even have a dig in this and yet we’ve heard more from him then from our Selectmen and PNZ members.
Hats off to Kevin!
Kevin, you just can’t accept the fact that I caught you in a lie so you continue to try and worm your way out of it. For the last time, that money was spend on a STUDY, not for preserving any structures or property as was done with your roundhouse in Willimantic. By the way, how much did that cost?
As far as knowing you’re an elected official that pretty easy to figure out, all one has to do is look at your town’s website. That takes a whole lot less time then what you’ve spend in internet searches about Brunswick County, NC.
You sure do whine a lot Kevin. Did you actually win your seat on the Board of Education or are you there by default (minority party representation meaning your automatically on the board no matter what?)
Brad,
I’m sorry you seem unhappy with me but we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. But still come visit us in Woodstock. Our politics can be a bit harsh but there are a lot of great people in town and it is a really nice community.
You do have some amazingly accurate guesses about the structure of our political system so kudos to you! You are right; I both won my seat and most likely did so because of the minority representation rule. This is exactly as our system was designed to operate.
If you want to discuss the structure of the CT political system I’d be happy to do so as it would be an interesting topic to pass the time. Though I confess I would most likely have to do some Googling.
Thanks,
Kevin
Kos;
When I said…
“There has always been a struggle to keep things from changing here, that stubborn mindset should not be confused with the NIMBY crowd in this case. (Which is alive and well in Woodstock)”
It was clear that the “NIMBY” crowd is not the case here…
What is unclear about that?
You are the only one here who ever treats me with dis-respect. But you do it to others so I try not to take it too personal.
I hope you are not this rude when you get out from your keyboard?
Db
so, we have snuffy back and taxpayer along with craig powers? have i got this right?
only kevin would take it on.
Interesting theory Nary. It’s not Powers. But I hadn’t thought of Snuffy. Brad is coming from Brunswick NC for certain, and I am in favor of outsiders speaking up. Route 40 begins not far from Brunswick. And crushed asphalt is a compelling subject that can be used to torture conservationists. We will see whether Brad continues to speak to us after the Thanksgiving weekend. For the time being Brad is okay although its weird that he brought up Kevin’s election. By the way, Kevin did win his seat – he beat me
db-
You must be originally from these parts, because you have no spine and are overly sensitive to anyone that doesn’t speak like a 1st grade teacher. You also have a sheltered backwoods view of the world, but that’s neither here nor there. Try reading a little Noam Chomsky (“Prospects and Hopes”)-maybe that will help.
OK, I’m just busting them on you, but seriously, no need to take my bantering back and forth like a little girl. A little bit of kvetching amongst guys never hurt anyone.
This is a simple case of you not making yourself perfectly clear and me thinking that you meant that this WAS “the NIMBY crowd in this case”.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving dbrownie!
Wow, this place sure is weird….(see Brad’s new article. Admin).