from Ken Rapoport
Pardon me- but I thought this article (What is Fair) was going to be about THE FAIR- the Woodstock Fair! While I certainly agree that PA-490 abuse should not be tolerated, and discussion surrounding its use is certainly fair game- but I do believe its legitimate application provides the town true benefits.
For example, after we purchased the Douglas Development Property in 2005- prior to our notorious IWWC and PZC groups nearly approving an 8 lot subdivision, with a proposed 50ft wide paved town road entering a 12 foot wide dirt section of pulpit rock road, with an existing 15% incline and NO traffic site line requirements by the developer’s engineers (CME)?! {Funny how they ignore safety issues when looking to approve more building, but constantly reference “safety and fire” access to justify future road improvements on scenic dirt roads??} Why not deny an application because a road is a designated scenic road- and lacks modern safety and fire access- particularly when the developer bought the land KNOWING it was already a designated scenic road?
Anyway- I am digressing.
We placed this land into PA-490- which significantly reduced the taxes (based on development rights/value) – and subsequently donated 100% to Wyndham Land Trust. We have done the same thing for over 120 acres- for the preservation of historic and scenic lands for all of our town’s people to enjoy. I would argue it also has an appreciable value to the entire town- as people come to enjoy the natural beauty- and shop or eat at the many small businesses in Woodstock. Plus no costly houses, kids, services, pollution, etc.
Now back to my original reason for reading this article. If the Town wants to truly solve its financial situation- reforming PA-490 may not be the ultimate “silver bullet”- particularly if it forces people to sell land for development (more kids, more school taxes, more services (road, fire, police). WHAT ABOUT A SURCHARGE FOR THE 250,000 ATTENDEES TO THE ANNUAL WOODSTOCK FAIR?? Seriously, most of the “out-of-town’ people believe Woodstock is leading a charmed life. Would if be too much to institute a DOLLAR A DAY surcharge on ticket prices for putting up with the inconvenience of this annual event? Road, fire, EMT, traffic, general business interruption?? I understand the Agricultural society is a non-profit- but communities all over this country are looking for creative ways to receive funding from private schools, churches, Fairs, that USE RESOURCES- but don’t contribute their FAIR share. I mean- look at the poor deal negotiated by our prior selectmen- who negotiated complete free sewage rights/connection for the FAIR- in exchange for a small piece of land – so a pumping station could be built?! What do you think the REAL VALUE of flush toilets are over PIT Toilets are to 250,000 people? And the Fair organizers?
MFATF had suggestions about the FAIR? (As well as PA-490) Nothing ever happened. I am POSITIVE that our selectmen COULD institute something to take advantage to make a FAIR Situation!! But unfortunately, out current (and most prior) selectmen- have close ties with the beneficiaries of the Woodstock Fair. “Those (HE) who must not be named” (to steal from the Harry Potter series) always work hard to protect the interests of the Woodstock Fair- but actively making sure the elected officials protect their “Golden Goose”. Sure – reform of PA-490 could provide some benefits. But my math says- 250,000 multiplied by $4 is $1,000,000 (one million) annually! This seems to be a much better deal fighting for. This would be a huge WIN for the ENTIRE TOWN- even better- paid for primarily by foreigners!
Okay- so because this article was titled “WHAT IS FAIR”- I assume my deviation into another related tax, cost and fairness issue- is grounds for a legitimate comment.
Regardless of the discourse- what everyone should be thinking- is WHY haven’t our elected officials ever seriously considered a surcharge (or similar) on the FAIR. I am positive some smart attorney could find a strategy to do this. Few people could argue that Woodstock citizens are not already paying (indirectly) for the annual FAIR- we should be compensated. Now that folks- would be VERY FAIR.
How do you get a million dollars? I thought that the total Fair attendance for the four days ran around 250,000. At a dollar a head, that would bring in $250,000.
“My bad” for speeding thru my explanation- please let me clarify. My mathmatical formula was 250,000(people) x 1 (dollar per day) x 4 (labor day weekend)= 1,000,000. I realize people typically go only 1 day-but if they went 4 days- they would be contributing 16 to the town! So for each ticket sold, the Ag Society would contribute 4 dollars to help offset our annual operation costs?! Okay- some math adjustments might be needed to account for “lifetime Ag members”- but still a significant revenue generator in comparison to PA-490. (But never suggested it is an either / or choice)
Anyway- the original premise of my comment related to the prior article’s title “What is FAIR”? My unscientific study- consisting of asking people in line waiting to enter FAIR over the past 16 years -each year- every “out-of-towner” dislikes the ever increasing costs of ticket prices-BUT ALWAYS SMILE- and say- well- “Isn’t the Town of Woostock lucky to have the FAIR”?! They FEEL better about the fee because THEY think its helping all the town’s people.Its time to recognize the VALUE of that GOOD WILL!
I am not suggesting the FAIR necessarily raise ticket prices 4 dollars- but simply consider maybe a 2 dollar increase(and 2 off existing fee). Remember- what “use” taxes does the town collect from all the vendors, entertainment acts or Rides?
I am sure- even the people without a MBA Degree- could figure out how to squeeze an average of 4 dollars of revenue for the town’s benefit(exchange for our ligitimate costs- fire,emt,roads, sewage, etc) OVER 4 days for each attendee!
Hope that helps to explain my math!
Does anyone know if the taxes paid on the fields used for parking (which have a very, very, lucrative cash crop) reflect their value as hay fields or parking lots?
I completely agree the town should get more from the Fair. Apart from anything else we all pay a “tax” in noise, congestion, litter, etc.
What about the folks who make money parking all of these people? Are they ‘double dipping” with PA490 as well as collecting the $5.00 per car fee? Interesting article. this make me wonder why our school system is funded so poorly.
The FAIR is operated by the non-profit organization the Woodstock Agricultural Society, as you pointed out in your post. The FAIR has to adhere to the rules, regulations and laws that govern such non-profit entities by State Statutes. The Town of Woodstock has no right or authority to apply a surcharge (tax) to ticket sales at the FAIR. Ernie Wetzel proposed this when he was First Selectman and was told this was not possible under the current laws governing not for profit organizations like the Agricultural Society.
People don’t realize that the FAIR pays for POLICE, FIRE, and EMERGENCY SERVICES that are on the FAIR GROUNDS, during the FAIR. Since 9-11, the amount the FAIR has been forced to pay for SECURITY has more than DOUBLED. The FAIR is required to keep a nominal operating budget and all the PROFITS from the FAIR must be RE-INVESTED in the FAIRGROUNDS.
teacher09: Anyone who believes that “non-profits make no money is naive. Non-profits also translate with any CPA as “not for profit”, meaning, revenue can be made, as long as it is directed or assigned to the proper venue. The fair must make something, other wise, they wouldn’t keep it up, and wouldn’t be giving money to all the folks who win ribbons for livestock etc. I think a few years back, the Cafe talked about this whole Fair contribution to the town thing, and someone mentioned “PILOT” programs in existence all over the place= negotiations between a town and a NOT FOR Profit entity =”payment in lieu of taxes”
Interesting comments Teach. Yes, I am sure the fair pays for the fire, emt and security “during the fair”- but that it is incremental to the total cost to assure the capacity of these services is available (the other 361 days)
Interesting that “that rebel” Ernie Wetzel brought forth that idea- sure didn’t publicize the issue much- if he indeed did really push this?! I would like to see the transcripts of that discussion? Interesting also- that MFATF’s ideas about the FAIR were also buried.
Also- since when do citizens simply roll over and subject themselves blindly to the “rules” of the state?!
Ever wonder why the key individuals behind the FAIR are so involved in Town politics? Follow the money- people protect what is valuable to them.
It certainly seems that something could be done with ALL non-profits- the FAIR included.
What is FAIR?
teacher09,
I guess that short front run of basic black chain link fencing qualifies as a reinvestment of profits. From what I can see, this is the only “improvement” to the grounds over the past three years. It probably cost all of $1000.00. Where do all those other profits go is the perpetual question.
Ken, I agree with your idea but just think of what could be gained by taxing appropriately all the sketchy acreage in PA-490 AND also placing a surcharge on the Fair?!
We could have lower pupil/teacher ratios in the lower grades rather than watch this go in the opposite direction. We could get more arts and music programing too. We could even bring the kids up to speed in technology equipment so they can adequately compete. Why heck, there’d be so much money, the Academy might even be able to build more classrooms, and beef up their Science and Math programs. All of That would really be great in my opinion.
(just in case you thought I was trying to pick on Pulpit Rock folks in my prior post – I wasn’t. Using it for the point only.)
Ok, everyone should google “PILT” program. “Payment in lieu of taxes”. Officlas and not for profits need to get together on this one…
The money potentially available from taxing a few small parcels of open land more heavily and from a reasonable fair surcharge are orders of magnitude apart
Doubtful,
I suppose what the town should do is SIMPLY ASK the residents(survey via your phone, email, paper?) If people are FOR or AGAINST a FAIR (4dollar) surcharge?
If a majority of people agree-and our selectment don’t act on it- can anyone out there elaborate on the next procedural step in the process to assert our collective wishes?
Ken-
I think a lot of people-certainly me- would be for a Fair ticket surcharge or some other mechanism of getting fair (I’ll skip the pun and caps lock)value for the town from it.
Whether or not this is an issue that people would act on is doubtful; only 12% showed up to vote at last budget referendum.
I think town residents could be energized to vote for a surcharge, possibly $2 per head. This would require a large petition to bring this to a vote. Then, the Fair would sue the town. But it’s worth establishing for the record the feelings of the residents on this issue (teachref’s comment).
If people thought that this money would benefit the town, (roads etc) and ultimately the school system(s), they might be inclined to add that dollar figure surcharge. I am sorry that it would have to come to this, a petition and all. It’s shameful, actually. And while we are on the subject, I believe the Hyde School actually charges the Middle and Elementary schools each year, in the thousands, for use of that Auditorium, but I think the PTO picks up the tab.
How much land,
Not sure about the validity of any charges from the Hyde School? Back in 2004- I was involved in helping to set up a debate for the town- sponsored by the Middle School and High School student counsels. We needed to demonstrate insurance- but otherwise- I don’t recall any fee (or minimal)
My 2 cents. Anyone else have info on this?
Wow. It’s about time somebody has spoken out about the fair contributing to the community. The fair not only makes money at the gate, parking lots, but also the venders.
The 501-3c status is a sham. Look up the rules and regulations and intent of this charity status you will see the Fair is exploiting it and the town of Woodstock. This should be put to referendum and I think most of the town feels the same. The fear of the manure Mafia, Dexter Young and family keeps most people quiet. The Town is run by his relatives and off spring as well. So good luck on changing the status quo….Thank you for bringing to the peoples attention, it’s about time. The BOE needs more money.
Shocked-
You are unreasonably singling out the Youngs but your point is essentially valid.
There are very limited revenue streams for the town based on this town being largely farm based. The Fair is a unique event for Woodstock. …(see Ron’s new article. Admin).