from Dean
The graph at this site shows historic gas prices in US over the last 5 years. The prices were higher under Bush (to Mary Mapes).
The reason that fuel prices are so high is for the following reasons:
1) There are two wars going on in the Middle East and lots of other saber rattling. That encourages commodity investors to bet that the price of oil will increase, which it then does. Before Bush began his war of choice in Iraq, gas was below $2 a gallon.
2) China and India are now major comptitors for oil. They werent ten years ago.
John, you said that Kennedy wanted to extract us from Vietnam, but the record is not all that clear on that. Kennedy was constantly trying to placate the hawks with the Bay of Pigs, putting nuclear missles in Turkey (creating the Cuban Missle Crisis) and putting advisors and soldiers in Vietnam. He also approved the coup that overthrew and killed Diem in Vietnam and plunged that country’s government in chaos throughout the rest of the war. Kennedy’s cabinet and Joint Chiefs of Staff were all hawks. The reason why Johnston stayed in Vietnam because he was pressured by Kennedy advisors to go win that war.
My pick of best and worst presidents since Roosevelt:
1) Roosevelt-carried country through Great Depression and WWII.
2) Reagan- turned culture of country around from feeling sorry for ourselves to one of pride. Also, will give him credit for winning Cold War.
3) Eisenhower/Truman-Patriots first, did what was best for the country and not for their careers.
4) Clinton- I disliked the guy but give him credit for the economic expansion and financial growth for everyone, Also leaving with a balanced budget.
5) Obama – He has his right wing and left wing critics. But if you can piss off the extremists on both sides, you are doing something right. Avoided catastrophe from the Great Depression, and actually got national health care program done.
more on Obama from Dean:
1) Bush brought us the Great Recession, Obama took over in the depth of it and we were out of the technical recession within 9 months.
2) I read this weekend somewheres (NYT or WSJ probably) that our stock market is the only market among western industrialized countries whose value is higher than from before the start of the Great Recession. We are doing better than everyone else (even though it still sucks).
3) Finally at last started getting some successes in Afghanistan, killed Bin Laden while Bush team management of the war allowed Bin Laden to slip away. Killed more terrorist leaders than Bush with increased drone strikes in pakistan and other places.
4) Passed Health Care Bill. Clinton backed down when he started to catch heat on this. Obama pressed on and I give him credit for that courage. This is something that we need to be competitive in the world market. Our system nw is badly broken and not sustainable.
6) Bush 1 – Very competent administration to get things done.
7) Ford/Carter- Both nice guys with good intentions but not really smart or tough. Didn’t get anything done. But getting nothing done is better than the disasters the others left us with.
8.) Nixon- Did alot of very good things, opened relations with China to isolate Soviets, EPA, Medicare, etc…, but complete lack of moral judgement.
9) Kennedy- Number of disasters or close disasters, once you got past the Camelot nonsense. Almost started WWIII by putting missles in Turkey which caused the Soviets to put missles in Cuba.
10) Johnson -Horrible execution of Vietnam War, Great Society changed culture of country in wrong direction.
11) Bush 2 – What can I say, 2 poorly run wars, lied to country about one of them, worst growth in family income, economic policies lead to Great Recession, dollar at lowest value since Civil War, all time high prices for fuel, could go on and on with this. He wasnt a smart man, Reagan wasnt either but had the good sense to put really smart people around him. Bush put cronies and yes men around him.
I did this quickly and realized a few minutes later that I missed Nixon and Obama, but you already posted
Nixon- put him at 7, between Carter and Kennedy. Did alot of very good things, opened reklations with China to isolate Soviets, EPA, Medicare, etc…, but complete lack of moral judgement.
Obama-put him behind Clinton at 5. He has his right wing and left wing critics. But if you can piss off the extremists on both sides, you are doing something right. Avoided catastrophe from the Great Depression, and actually got national health care program done.
Kennedy’s Vietnam War plans are discussion and documented in Chris Matthew’s new book. Unfortunately, I am reading in the 19th century right now.
The Chinese Embassy opened in Washington in the spring or summer of 1981 during Carter and guess who was invited to the celebration. I was with the FDA and we brought in Chinese Nationals to my Bureau at NIH in Bethesda which was investigating an regulating the flu vaccine. They were very pleasant to work with (didn’t seem like they were spying but who knows). The flu strains that come to the USA originate in China. After the luncheon, we were all invited to watch a very strange movie. All I can remember is Chinese jet fighter planes strafing the pastoral country-side with the pilots showing their teeth.
Another thing that Carter did was to mandate that all government employees pay for their parking. At the National Institutes of Health were I was, this created a mess. I refused to buy a parking permit. There was a great open field on the south side of the campus that was where many parked. Before I left the government I had collected an impressive file of parking tickets which I ignored and the bureaucracy never tracked me down when I moved on to California in 1982. They may have reversed the policy after Carter left because this policy resulted in an unneeded bureaucracy at NIH. When Reagan came in there was great fear of being RIF’D because Reagan was going to reduce the bureaucracy on a grand scale Washington-wide. Reagan campaigned on this. But guess what never happened.
Having a hard time forgiving Clinton for NAFTA, Glass Steagall repeal, and Monica Lewinsky scandal. Therefore, I put Obama before Clinton.
Dean, It’s well known that JFK lost trust in his hawkish advisors after the Bay of Pigs. The communist threat of taking over the world was a fiction that disappated after the McCarthy Hearings. This was the original reason for going to Vietnam at the end of Eisenhowers admin. Nixon was the problem here with his role in inflating the communist threat in the 50s. Who knows what Nixon’s mindset was when he won in 68. I could never understand what appealled to the voters in 1968 and 1972. I liked McGovern in 72 and remember being in an Irish bar drinking stout in 1974 just off of Harvard square. The picture next to me on the wall was a map of the US states with only one Dem colored state. It was MA with the caption stating proudly “we nixed Nixon”. I could never understand what was appealing about Nixon. The faculty didn’t like Kissinger either. I drew my own conclusions after watching the process in Paris with the negotiations with the North Vietnamese. The whole thing was a joke designed to allow Nixon and Kissinger to save face. Many soldiers died while Nixon and Kissinger were trying to save face. Going to China was inevitable and Nixon took advantage of the occasion to build his resume. W did the same with 9/11 sadly.
John, I agree, both Nixon and Kissinger were more concerned about saving personal face. But these things are also more complicated than that. We didnt want to appear weak and were trying to find a way to still look strong.
I can tell you as an Army officer in the 1980s that the communist threat was treated very real then. Everything was viewed through the lens that the communists were manipulating the world to take it over. So if people were thinking that in the 1980s, wouldnt they be thinking the same after the Cuban missile crisis in the early 60′s? (I am not old enough to know first hand)
Also, if JFK was so intent in backing off in Vietnam, why did he OK the CIA overthrow of Diem which destabilized an already unstable country. Kennedy was assassinated a few weeks later so that decision was very late in his career.
One other thing that you might find interesting is that in the latter half of the war in Iraq, one of the books of required reading for many Army officers was a book written that detailed how the Vietnam War was fought during the Nixon administration. Essentially, the last three years of the war were highly successful in terms of fighting a war (i understand not successful in terms of lives wasted for no return). The Viet Cong ceased to exist (war had to be fought by NV regulars) and large areas that were controlled by VC were cleared for the first time in 10 years.
In summary, the Westmoreland way of fighting the war was how we fought in Iraq for the first four years. Patreus followed the doctrine of how we fought the last three years in Vietnam (hearts and minds, clear and hold, no body counts, no search and destroy). It was pretty amazing of how much was forgotten in Iraq about how to fight these wars. It took a team of officers who were really academics (Patreus has a PhD from Princeton) to go back into history and refigure this out.
Blame Bush, Blame Bush, Blame Bush…
three years into Chairman Obama’s failing presidency that’s all we hear.
What about Obama’s failures?
Not one worth mentioning?
The media’s full court press to re-elect this man is unbelievable…
Everything is great pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Remember nothing got done when he controlled house and senate but it’s the
Repubs fault…
Unreal
Db
In 1970 I was a freshman at Eastern Ct. State College (it wasn’t a University yet) I had a visiting professor from UCONN for an intro Sociology Course. He was one of those 60′s radicals that wore U.S. Flag patches on his jeans and a flag bandana on his head. We had many a heated discussion about our presence in Vietnam. The spring semester came around and we were one of the many colleges that were shut down due to anti-war protests.
I had several final exams cancelled when a group of students took over the Administration Building. They were throwing paper airplanes out of the windows with anti-war slogans. I was very dissapointed, since I was paying my own tuition, with the help of a couple of scholarships I received from Putnam High School. I like to think I wasn’t the only student angered by the closing of school and disruption of final exams.
As for the visiting UCONN professor, he often met with students after classes and we continued our discussions about many topics, other than the war. He told us how he smoked peyote with Native Americans in New Mexico, and how it helped him learn to speak Spanish.
When President Nixon was running for re-election in 1972, I bumped into our visiting prof. from UCONN on campus one day. I was wearing a “Nixon’s The One” campaign button on my lapel. He walked right up to me, pointed at the button and said, “I see you didn’t learn a (blankety-blank) thing in my class.”
This was prior to the Watergate break-in scandal that eventually brought Mr. Nixon to become the only U.S. President to resign while in office.
DB, so where would you place Bush and Obama?
Just because Obama followed Bush that doesnt mean he gets a free pass on his failures.
Also, some Obama successes:
1) Bush brought us the Great Recession, Obama took over in the depth of it and we were out of the technical recession within 9 months.
2) I read this weekend somewheres (NYT or WSJ probably) that our stock market is the only market among western industrialized countries whose value is higher than from before the start of the Great Recession. We are doing better than everyone else (even though it still sucks).
3) Finally at last started getting some successes in Afghanistan, killed Bin Laden while Bush team management of the war allowed Bin Laden to slip away. Killed more terrorist leaders than Bush with increased drone strikes in pakistan and other places.
4) Passed Health Care Bill. Clinton backed down when he started to catch heat on this. Obama pressed on and I give him credit for that courage. This is something that we need to be competitive in the world market. Our system nw is badly broken and not sustainable.
DB, I am no fan of Obama, I am just pointing out that he isnt all failures. I would have loved to see the republicans run someone strong. But if its Santorum or Gingrich, I will vote for Obama because they will be another Bush or worse.
Dean, it doesn’t matter what factual reasoning you bring to the table with “DB”. He will be inclined to say “well if you think that way, it’s because you are misinformed or influenced by the left media bias.” It’s maddening. It reminds me of my aunt’s responses to legitimate claims brought to her about my cousin’s bad behavior. No matter what the school, or friends, or relatives told her, her response was always “you are just jealous.”
I am no fan of Obama, just pointing out he isn’t all failures ? is just t he straign man hustler in a three card monty game. Not fooled. Of course you are voting for Obama and you are actively trying to convince others. Heard on the news today that your lefty media is reporting the spiking gas prices as good, proof that the economy is growing, saving lives by keeping people off the roads and helping the environment by putting less co2 in the air. I am telling you the emperor has no clothes.
Mary, um, more demand = higher prices.
Mary, I watch Liberal TV. I haven’t seen or heard anything about “…saving lives by keeping people off the roads and helping the environment by putting less co2 in the air”. If you heard this quote from FOX news, then you and my Aunt need to be friends.
George W. cannot be seperated from the Brains in the Oval Office: Dick Cheney, and Dick Cheney can never be forgiven for the Theft of the Decade aka Monotary/Moral Outrage of Iraq/Afganistan:
The Theft, Defrauding and Overcharging by Defense Contractors of Billions and Billions of US Tax Dollars (using “Cost Plus” system, whereby they are paid a percentage over and above whatever the equipment they procured cost them); Facilitated by the shameful Revolving Door between Pentagon-Defense Contractors Execs and BOD’s and Congress:
FRONTLINE and others had some great examples: A) When a $110,000 Truck ‘died’ in the Desert because it needed Oil, it was abandoned and destroyed (deprive the enemy) and they simply purchased a new on, both paid for by easy-cheesy Tax Dollars flowing like water!
B) $25 Six Pack of Coke (produced locally for $0.85!)
C) Soldiers forced to use small ‘issue’ laundry bag, Haliburton Charged $25+ per Load (and water didn’t clean clothes, see below)
D) Haliburton paid $ Millions to clean local water (remember those huge bouncy water trampolines? ), but utterly FAILED and literally provided brave fighting troops with Pathogen-laden H2O for sink, tooth brushing, showers, etc. (many were very sick).
There are, of course, E,F,G,H,I,J, etc., etc. – all in all Haliburten et al Defrauded literally Billions and Billions that we have NEVER gotten back; no one has ever been charged for that massive criminal enterprise and hundreds of US Soldiers suffered greivious injuries, sicknesses and virus infections (lasting to this day) due to Negligence.
Blackwater? That story is part and parcel and the unprecedented, shameful chapter of Defense Contractor/Pentagon Corruption also costing lives.
We could sure use those Billions and Billions today (Solyndra = small potatoes) yet the cover-up is as tight as I’ve ever seen.
Even though it’s all a matter Of Record and on the Authority of Disinterested Sources like Wall Street Journal, Frontline, BBC, Christian Science Moniter…
Bravo Con. Well said.
Shower of hope, heard it from Jay Carney on cspan, you know cspan? same channel Obama promised to have health care debate on? Wide open on cspan? ring a bell? I remember you communists blaming Bush for gas prices. Remember the good old days of 4$ unemployment under Bush. Please cunsult media matters and return with some propaganda.
The Obama administration is one of the most corrupt in recent history.
The bush policies that have been followed by chairman Obama
have been relatively successful.
Funny to see Obama taking credit for seal team succes, the same seal team
they prosecuted for slapping a terrorist suspect.
I think his energy policy alone is the most blaring example of abject
failure. Oil, gas, coal all up under this baffoon. No new nukes just crony
cash for solar “projects” (money for big donators).
Real inflation has skyrocketed, of course they don’t count fuel or food costs,
how convienent.
We have lots of energy in the Dakotas, Alaska and the gulf of Mexico now all off limits thank to Dem incompetence. The myth of corn ethanol has raised food prices globally or at lest in our hemisphere. I don’t blame the farmers for cashing in on gov stupidity. So enjoy your green jobs revolution while behind the wheel of your Chevy volt.
Now back to your regularly scheduled msnbc/ CNN / dem talking points.
Please can I have another history lesson from the intelligentsia here at the
Cafe’ ????
Db
The boogy man halliburton is mentioned but silence about dem war profit
thugs like Diane Feinstein and her creepy husband.
Because they have the get out of jail free card “D”
Db
Dave, knock MSNBC and CNN all you want. FOX NEWS is just malicious entertainment at best. They were discredited in my eyes, when they started featuring Glenn Beck and Sara -donate to me- Palin. Palin’s 7th grade knowledge and her repeating over and over the “death panels” tagline/lie, only sent me further left. And Glenn Beck can best be summed up in Louis Black’s You Tube video “Glenn Beck has Nazi Tourettes.” All in all, the GOP of late, is an EMBARRASSment, and most Repub’s in town know that.
Ha, I am now intelligentsia, thanks.
Dave, you call Obama the most corrupt administration in recent history, can you back up that claim? I am not aware that they started a war by lying to us, or put our soldiers in harms way without body armor and with unarmored vehicles, or gave sole source contracts for tens of billions of dollars to cronies, or… I am not asking you to go far back, just justify your statement by going one president back.
Also, lets talk about your claims.
1) The bush policies that have been followed by chairman Obama
have been relatively successful.
Of course he would keep the successful ones and dump the bad ones. The problem was that there were alot of bad ones.
2) Funny to see Obama taking credit for seal team succes, the same seal team
they prosecuted for slapping a terrorist suspect.
If you served in the military, you would know that political appointees in the DoD do not participate in military justice cases. The fact is that person was charged and prosecuted by his chain of command, that is, by other SEALS. Since his chain of command had a problem with what he did, it is safe to assume that he did something wrong, not expected for someone with the character of a SEAL.
3) I think his energy policy alone is the most blaring example of abject
failure…
You do realize the energy prices were higher under Bush and with an improving economy, and more saber rattling in the MidEast, that those prices have to go up. Also, if drilling in those places were so easy, why didnt the Bush Adminstration go drill there when energy prices were actually higher? Last point, if solar power is such a bad investment, why are the Chinese pouring so much government money into it (and driving our companies out of businesss)? Oh, that’s right, they should be able to compete on their own even when other governments subsidize their industries.
5) The myth of corn ethanol has raised food prices globally or at lest in our hemisphere.
The problem here is that the Rebublican congressmen and Senators in the Miodwest (yes, Republican) wont end the ethanol subsidies because it is for their base, the rural population. Oops, another shot at the myth of Republican fiscal prudence.
Dave, you wanted another lesson, well here it is.
You can do any search on youtube for obama-energy prices-skyrocket. You will see Obama in 2008 smugly saying under hisplan, energy prices will sky rocket. Brent Mozell has a story of 2 one month periods of gas hikes. The first is in 2008 and there were 97 major news stories blaming Bush. The second one is this past month and only 21 stories frommajor media and this time they are still blaming Bush. Even though Obama shut down the keystone pipeline, today he says he did not shut it down, just deferred it for half a decade. You can get all flambouyant in your defense of Obama, but the regular people see it, feel it and are suffering. Your Tom Brokaw said in an interview with Obama that it is great prices are going up and it will force people to drive less. Like on the 1st ammendment rights of religous organizations, Obamahas cave for the extreme left positions on energy. When the tea party wasactive, Obama sicked napolitano on them, and when his brown shirts (occupiers) riot, disrupt the peace, assault cops,use babies as human shields, he speaks highly of them. Obama is such a disgrace on all levels.
Dear Mary,
Why do you continuously address unknown recipients on this site as “you ddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddcommunists” as in “I remember you communists blaming Bush for gas prices.”
Who do you mean, specifically?
***
To Everyone:
I do acknowledge that my little contribution, above, is little more than me taking an opportunity to vent about this peeve of mine, failing to understand the lack of attention, outrage and prosecution…
Thanks
Poor Mary. Again, stop watching FOX Entertainment Network. Glenn Beck has used “brown shirts” lots, and if anyone uses Goebles tricks and technique- it’s Glenn Beck. Do you even know who Ernst Roehm was? Well, look him up now. If you ever want to legitimately broaden your understanding of the whole Third Reich, start at the librairy with the “Versailles Treaty”. That should keep you occupied for a while….
Nazis. National socialist party. Pay attention to the word socialist. They targeted Jews and religon as enemies, as well as gypsies, Teachers, clergy, homosexuals, handicapped, history books andprobably many others. The national socialists used a thug militia called the brown shirts. Now we all know that Obama belonged to a church of hate for 25 years and heard many hate sppeches from Rev. Wright. We have Obama’s frinds Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers that organized the May 2010 flotilla ship. One of Obama’s first speeches as president was to tell Israel to return to the pre1967 borders. Now we have the occupy thing going on. Lots of anti Jew and Very much anti Israel propaganda. They are rioting just like the brown shirts and have their own crystal night planned for the month of May in Chicago. We see daily attacks on religon, the latest is the conscience mandate to the Catholic church. We have all seen the occupy burning bibles, flags, dumping condoms on Catholic school girls. A coincidence? So far the only way i can differentiate between Obama and Hitler is he has’t gone after homosexuals and gypsies. Now you compare Glenn beck to a Nazi? That is probably the dumbest thing I have heard since Obama apologized to Afghanistan after they rioted and killed our soldiers this week. I read the history lesson from the stooge in this article and i see very clearly someone putting out a revisionist history just like the nazis. You want the schools because you want to control them with your own fictional history. It is so obvious every time there is a story on the Acedemy with all the wimpering from about 10 or 12 people in this town. went back and read the blogs from the start of the cafe and it is the same whining few. The good thing is most of the town sees you and Obama for what you are and this Bum can go home and listen to Hate from Rev. Wright and Luis Farrakahn for the rest of his life next January.
Mary, you are really scary and I suspect, you’ll never wake up. So get used to the fact that President Obama is going to be reelected. One for all, and all for one. Thank God you are few in number.
Mary, revisionist history?
Pick out one thing that I said that was wrong.
Just because you dont like it (obviously you are beyond reason) doesn’t mean it isnt true. Mary just proves the mantra of the ultra-right, ignore facts, and call the opposition Nazis and communists. Sounds just like the ultra-left of the 60s and Rev Wright, an extremist.
Glenn Beck (the modern day Goebels) has his Obama scapegoat, and dumb-bells like Mary buy into it.
Funny, Alan Dershowitz, life long Democrat, A.C.L.U. member reflects my sentiments. He actually inspired them. Dean , you are such a tool and you don’t even know it. Makes it much more laughable. Let me tell you what you should have learned in a decent college. There is no uppercase I in history. Get over yourself.
Before you repeat the Obama and Soros/media matters propaganda of low unemployment and booming economy, Have a lil tip for you. Check out some of the Stanley Greenberg polls. You know hime, the husband of our own nut job Rosa DeLaura. Anyways he is saying that this scam by DWS(Debbie Wasserman Shultz) is polling bad and that it puts your Idol way behind. Let you in on a little secret…..quiet..shhh. real unemployment is at about 15%…. shhhh.. Your little circles of elite wannabe Ivy leaguers wont share this with you, but I will. The only tick louder then the gas prices is the debt your National Socialist God is running up. Like the croc in Peter Pan, I have two words for you socialist /communists…..tic.tic..
Sometime ago I wondered how the Germans did not reject the the nazis. Wondered how it happened and did not believe they were not complicit with Hitler. Now I get it . It happened incrementally. They were brainwashed. Just like you people of the cafe.
Mapes, This sums you up: You don’t like civil liberties, your pending SS check, Dems like Debbie W Shultz (same spelling as Preston) or Obama AND you love Peter Pan and Tic Toc, Hitler, and the Nazies because you keep bring them up. Tell us the decent college where you went.
John another one not to waste time on, when asked to bring up one factual point, she just falls into name calling. The reason is that she really doesnt have any facts and cant look at a world beyond what she thinks it should be. Once again, a classic symptom of the extreme right.
Oh, one last history lesson for mary, the Nazis were actually a right wing organization. They started as a counter to communists in Germany and their march to power was focused on scaring people about communists, extreme nationalism (no one was as good as them), and isolating minorities like Jews and Gypsies by blaming them for their troubles. Hitler took dicatorial power by blaming the bombing of their capitol by communists. They killed about 25 million soviets in WWII only because they were led by communists. So Mary, the moderates and liberals cant be Nazis, only extreme right wingers can become a Nazi.
Dean, Don’t you think Mary is a “HE”?
Funny how all the libs shift quickly to name calling of poor Mary
because she dares go against the lib/dem speak.
The same name calling they chastise her for using.
So what she doesn’t go along with your talking points.
I give admin credit for letting her point of view be seen. No doubt
most of you would prefer she be quiet, after all criticism of
Chairman Obama is strictly prohibited in the new world order.
The right wing boogymen Fox news, Glenn Beck, Bush are your
go to words.
At least you are all consistant.
You are all correct, the economy is booming, the dollar is stronger than
ever!, wars are ending… not spreading, energy costs are
being reduced, jobs are increasing and unemployment is being reduced.
The debt is shrinking..
Race relations and over all health of the nation has never been better!
If we can only keep bypassing this pesky constitution…
All will be wonderful!!
All hail Obama!
Db
Dave, just curious. Can you answer a direct question? How do you feel about family planning/birth control?
Shower of hopes:
I feel family planing should be decided by the family, not the government.
Birth control is another personal issue, however if it was more available at a lower cost it would save us all money and heartache.
When I say more available I don’t mean to our school age kids by the school.
How do you feel about it?
Db
P.s.
Please don’t use Dave I go by dbrownie here thanks!
db & Mary,
Mary, I’m grateful you’re impotent to force on America many of the ideas you support. They’ve all been forced on others throughout history and result in a repression completely antithetical to the Constitution and American Principles. I’m glad to know that your only power is that of speech and only wish you would actually use it to open your mind further (something all of us should do) instead of merely repeating one-dimensional propaganda.
Refusing to engage in any debate shows contempt for principles of Free Speech.
When otherwise intelligent Citizens never question their own assumptions, believe that only they are 100% right (and others are 100% wrong) it illustrates a dangerous narrow-mindedness (for ex., that is how Hitler was able to come to power).
When Citizens believe often biased sources without question or skepticism, come to believe that the world is one-dimensional and increasingly refer to their absolute Equals under the Law and the Constitution – their own fellow Americans – as “Enemies”, they are at their most deluded.
Merely repeating the Slogans, Platitudes and divisive Talking Points you’ve been told to believe doesn’t mean you actually understand them, and most often means you’ve become someone else’s trained puppet.
These puppets are useful and dangerous to democracy. How is it possible to debate with Citizens who are deluded into believing hook-line-and-sinker messages of fear, division, blame and hate when they are so close-minded as to refuse to listen or discuss?
How can anyone illustrate the utter hypocrisy of applying severe skepticism of certain biased media sources (which is healthy) because they report stories you refuse to believe and express ideas you hate, while applying total blind adherence and belief without question (never mind healthy skepticism) of certain other biased media sources because they report stories you’re trained to believe and reflect ideas you embrace? Is bias OK as long as it leads to ‘agreeable distortion’? Bias is bias and skepticism and scrupulous examination should apply across-the-board.
How can the greatest Nation in the History of the world and certain of it’s Citizens be summed up in Platitudes and negative Slogans? How can the most powerful Nation in history be threatened by Citizens asking challenging questions? How can it be imperiled by Citizens debating Citizens?
True Debate offers great service to Society when it results in the scrupulous examination of any and all assumptions underlying one’s own beliefs; when it causes us to question our own conclusions to be absolutely sure not only that they are correct, correctly arrived-at, but that we employ the most rigorous honesty in working them out.
It’s not too much to ask of others that they do the same; it’s part of doing what’s necessary to developing and maintaining democracy and a process that’s absolutely necessary for a Nation to qualify as ‘Exceptional’.
Db, I think every woman has the right to safeguard against a potentially dangerous or unwanted pregnancy, through a prevention method such as birth control (IUD, condoms, or the pill ). I also think that in the case of Obama care, that the Government wants to make sure birth control is available and affordable to all. I am not buying the twisted political argument that the Government is imposing it’s war on the Catholic Church. I just don’t buy it. Rov vs. Wade has been around far longer than that Koran toting, slaughter of the innocents President of ours.
shower of hope;
This is where we agree, I believe women do have the right to safeguard and to access.
I guess my concern is when the GOV forces religious institutions to pay for things that go against their beliefs.
There are hundreds if not thousands of institutions which have received wavers from Obama care so how can access be for everyone?
DB
Con;
How can you speak of one dimensional propaganda? I have spoke my piece here repeatedly. I don’t listen to talk radio or watch FOX news. My skepticism is my own. What’s wrong with that?
I use my life experiences, my upbringing and people I come in contact with. I travel a lot
and interact with many cultures and opinions.
It’s ok to not always agree with the people your in contact with.
When I hear and watch any news now it’s like a bad remake of “Brave new World” or 1984..
I seldom see any true debate here..
Db
DB, you are right there is little debate here. When moderates and liberals post something, the consrervatives (if you want to call them that) almost never respond back with any debate. They only repeat old cliches and tired rhetoric, sprinkled with some name calling. (Also if you think that Mary calluing me a nazi and me pointing out that nazis were actually extreme right wingers, well you are only proving my point).
In fact when I asked you to back up your statemnet that Obama was the most corrupt president in recent history, you dissappeared. That just makes you look like you just spout something off without having anything toi bqck it up.
Lastly, I would love to see Obama replaced but not with a fool like santorum or gingrinch anbd probablay not Romney.
Dean:
Moderates post here? Let me know when one shows up.
If you really would like a list of the current corruptions of
the Obama admin I’ll oblige. But if you don’t know of any I’d be
amazed. I didn’t disappear I also work for
a living and the Cafe isn’t always my priority.
Like I said, if anyone goes beyond the tired dem talking points
they are quickly piled on by the usual suspects.
I don’t think there are any Nazis here or in the dem sphere,
now Facists would be another thing.
Db
If you don’t think that moderates post here, then you are part of the problem of the current Republicans, anyone who is not an extremist is (pick one) a liberal, communist nazi or fascist.
When obama wins again, the blame will be on people like you and Mary.
Also, not answering the question of why you made the claim that Obama is the most corrupt in recent history just exposes you as a person who just talks before they think. Another trademark of the extreme right.
db,
RE: Haliburton, to the extent that your comment that “The boogy man halliburton is mentioned but silence about dem war profit thugs like Diane Feinstein and her creepy husband.” relates to my comment mentioning that company, I actually agree that there is a clear bias in the investigation and reporting of this issue and those companies and individuals associated with Republicans / conservatives are mentioned and even singled out far more than counterparts associated with Democrats / liberals.
The main point of my comment was meant to include any and all who were guilty of that shameful behavior, but I couldn’t name them all so I chose the company I think is the best example – there is good reason Haliburton is named so often, as they had their fingers in a lot of pies and received an staggering amount of tax dollars which I don’t believe they earned or deserve.
There is no other company that better represents the Model / Paradigm of that specific brand of corruption. Haliburton has/had all the necessary features in stark relief: a Vice President as former CEO with tremendous political power and influence, a huge number of contracts, a practice of quid pro quo of high paying jobs, political appointments, campaign contributions, lobbying efforts, etc. by and between associated politicians, pentagon officials and company executives, they were not held accountable, kept ill-gotten tax money and even continued with the same behavior, like their involvement in and partial culpability for the Deepwater Horizen disaster.
Haliburton seemed the best example by far to back up the argument that there was massive “…Theft, Defrauding and Overcharging by Defense Contractors of Billions and Billions of US Tax Dollars.”
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Regarding your more recent comment to me, let me use a classic double-negative hedge: I don’t disagree with you. I believe in doing my best to live up to / abide by the ideals I championed, but admit that I’m not often successful and I see that I unfairly suggested you do not.
I addressed you because sometimes it seems that you draw conclusions that don’t necessarily follow – that merely because a person has certain beliefs or positions with which you disagree that they must also have other objectionable beliefs or positions which they’ve not even expressed. It seems you sometimes just don’t give others the benefit of the doubt. It’s true, though, that many of us do it – assume that if someone expresses a belief that is or sounds like a “Talking Point” they must BE a certain kind of person whose beliefs, positions and values are completely familiar and whose dimensions are easily defined by sheer extrapolation.
The comment was actually directed more at how Mary seems to do this, often to an extreme degree. I just didn’t take the time or effort to spell that out or clarify that I don’t think you do it to the same extent. ‘The flesh is weak’ and I can go overboard in listening to the sound of my own voice. Thanks for your understanding.