Woodstock CT Café

I’m going to reserve judgement on this completely. I don’t know enough about the case. I will always remember the case where the Duke lacrosse team was accused of raping an African-American woman. Again, they were completely vilified by the press. Celebrities made statements about the evil, privileged Duke players. All sorts of racial allegations were made. Later, not only was the case dropped, but the DA went out of his way to say they were all in fact innocent. Imagine the torment those players were put through.

I’m always afraid to rush to judgement before all the facts are laid out. I’ll sit back and wait for this to play itself out. Then I will form my opinion. Just remember, there are two sides to every story.

So typical leftist opinion. Media brainwashed you like Attorney general described. So many clues of the left here. First is describing Zimmerman as white, then a white hispanic. second showing TRAYVON AS A 10 YEAR OLD BOY, NOT A GOLD TOOTHED GANG TATOOED 6’2″ that he was. NJow we have a witness that called 911 and reported Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. Zimmeman has called 911 to report crimes some 60 times and never brandished a weapon even on actual burglaries. Zimmerman had a broken nose and back of head wounds in line with witness account of Trayvon slamming his against the pavement. We have nation of islam and black panthers( same black panthers that threatened philly voters) offering bounty on Zimmerman. Msnbc anchor Sharpton of Brawley and Duke lacrosse fame creating the hype. Since the shooting, there has been over 2,000 black kids across the country killed by other blacks. This is a pure attempt of divide an conquor. This was in the playbook just like the media matters attack on Rush, just waiting for the opportunity. The good thing is even though your media tried to paint this in a leftist view, with alternative online media everyone knows what is going on with the left on this. Not enough facts out for anybody to convict Zimmerman, but your lefty media failed once again in providing any hint of the truth. Continue being brainwashed

The idea that some thug was wandering around the neighborhood with a loaded gun and following a kid down the street is insane. Then to feel that he has a license to kill someone is sickening. We are not in Afganistan or Somalia.

I was raised in the old south of the 1950′s. “Magnolias and Moonlight” it’s labeled. Sounds romantic? . . It isn’t.
At 8 years (1958), I saw chain gangs (in shackles) clothed in striped suits dig ditches by the side of roads always watched over by fat white men with a rifle standing on a high ditch bank. I do not exaggerate; I wish I could. “Colored” water fountains were disgustingly filthy. “Colored bathrooms” were so awful that black women could not/would not use them. These images/memories caused me to move north thinking I would not see appalling racial inequality caused by stupidity and manned by brutality.
I couldn’t serve as a juror in this case. I’ve seen it, I know it.
We, as a nation, must erase it. Forever. But research, teach it . . so it doesn’t ever happen again.

There were primary two eye witnesses to this incident. Both agreed on one thing. Trayvon was being followed! Zimmerman reported this to 911 on tape and Trayvon reported this to his girl friend. He was on the phone with her while he was being stalked by Zimmerman. One guy had a loaded gun and the other had skittles and was talking on the phone to his girlfriend.

John,
I agree with what you say we know in post 9. I also agree that the “stand your ground” laws are ill conceived for exactly this reason. They sound good to people who confuse Steven Segal movies with reality. I believe Zimmerman was looking for trouble and none of us should be surprised that he found it.

However, anything beyond that I’m a little leery of making a comment on. There are two sides of the story and this could be as simple as Trevon being cornered, feeling threatened and lashing out in fear. Under “stand your ground” laws that may have been all the excuse Mr. Zimmerman needed to kill him (Mr. Zimmerman may have even legitimately felt threatened in such a case). The real problem I see here is a law giving someone a license to kill in a situation that probably would otherwise had a worst case scenario of a fist fight.

Thanks,

Kevin

Libdem, we really don’t have any idea if this would be different if the kid were white. All we do is speculate. Any time the victim is black and the killer is not, we automatically assume there was racial motivation. Even our president decided to make this a racial issue before all the facts are out.

Honestly, I hate that every time a minority has a crime committed against them (allegedly), it becomes a racial issue. Let’s all remember, as well, that Zimmerman is a minority as well. But are you implying that the police approve of Mexicans more than African Americans, and that’s why no arrest was made?

This country is based on a legal system that is supposed to provide fair trials, and presume innocence. However, whenever an incident involves race, that all flies out the window, and people are convicted in the press rather than in court (see Duke Lacrosse case).

You all may be right, and Zimmerman may be guilty as heck. And if he proves to be, I will take up my pitchfork and join you all. However, until that happens, let’s afford Zimmerman his legal right to be innocent until proven otherwise.

I have another question. Are you all just as angry that the Black Panthers have put a bounty out on Zimmerman? Are you angry that he’s receiving death threats from people without all the facts in the case? Are all of you just as indignant when a white person is killed by a minority? Do you automatically assume that it is racially motivated as well?

Lastly, it was asked “How would the case be handled if the person killed was the son or daughter of a wealthy white person?” I pose a similar question to you. How would you fee if the son of a wealthy white person were killed by an older minority and the police decided it was justified (or not enough evidence)? Would you be just as angry and presumptuous?

The state of FLA. has a web site that explaines the law go to http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html Click on self defense it clearly states when the law is applicable.A concealed carry permit does not give you a licence to kill.It gives you the right to utilize your 2nd. amendment rights.Which too many people would rather not see any rights.It does state that the law does not make you a “freelance police officer”.

Anon – but it IS the SYG law that was cited by the SPD and State’s Attorney as the basis for letting GZ walk away from a homicide charge. “Feeling Threatened ” is not a justifiable defense for homicide. Of course this law will be interpreted by angry, ignorant, violent racists to justify their actions.

MM – yours is more Right wing “Backward – Think”. This WAS a lynching. Unbeknownst to you, that is precisely the point.

Comments defensive of Zman on the basis of his race, presumed innocence, etc are missing the point. He killed this kid and was never arrested and charged with a crime.

I’ll wait for all the facts.
It does look like one guy was armed with a gun while one was armed with Skittles.I think it’s possible that SYG could apply to both men once all the facts come out.
Poor Mary. So angry.

I realize what they are claiming but it appears that the police and attorneys are misunderstanding or misusing the law.I am glad you know all these people are racist.There is probabley alot of questions that need to be asked by the defense such as was zimmerman a certified security officer,or acting as a private citizen.Since this occured in a gated community maybe the police and attorneys are afraid of some political backlash from the community people,which is unacceptable.but,like everyone else discussing this topic we can only speculate and hope zimmerman gets what he deserves.

Justthisonce, i think you are missing the point. Yes, he killed this kid. However, you are only arrested if you’re being charged with a crime. You are assuming that since he killed this kid, he’s automatically guilty of a crime. However, there are many examples of times when killing is legally justified (not just with stand your ground either). Killing does not automatically equal crime.

I think you are all misunderstanding me. I’m not making excuses for Zimmerman. If he did what it APPEARS he did, with no justification, I think he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If there’s PROOF that the killing was racially motivated, the penalty should be even greater. I just don’t think it’s right to assume it’s racially motivated with no facts. I also don’t think it’s right to assume he’s a bigoted, cold-blooded killer before all the facts are presented. Please, be careful not to rush to judgement.

Mary Lou-

That Obama-Hitler sign you saw, well its courtesy of our local tea party group… you know, the “keep your government hands off my medicare” Glenn Beck-loving keep-Jesus-in-the- Constitution its-the-poor-peoples-fault folks Yeah, that one. Same signs up in Southbridge as well. Usually accompanied by angry mary mapes-like oddballs.

On Trayvon. If you are black, wear a hoodie and put you hands under your belt, you are obviously up to no good and need to be killed.

Also, has anyone heard the term “White Hispanic” before this tragedy occurred? Be honest with yourselves. Have you? Zimmerman would simply be referred to as Hispanic had he not shot and killed an African American boy. However, since it helps promote the anti-racism message, it’s important we call Zimmerman “White Hispanic” instead. Why? Because it’s white people that are responsible for all the racism in this world. Believe me, I’ve seen plenty of racism over the course of the last week… and not from white people.

TPOV – re-read your own first line – I suggest YOU are missing the point. You cannot shoot someone on the street, claim self defense, and have the police let you walk away that same night. Your comment reflects the confusion caused by the existence of these laws – they have created a gray area which is misinterpreted by people who believe the burden of proof in a homicide case has somehow been reversed.

You are saying get the facts first but that is what the police are supposed to do – except in this case the police chief, over the recommendation of his chief homicide detective, who did not believe Zman’s story, truncated the investigation before it started. THAT was the rush to judgement.

An arrest would be followed by detailed investigation, collection and preservation of physical evidence, examination of Zman by a physician, autopsy of victim, interview of residents, review of 911 tapes – all kinds of stuff. If Zman’s story holds up he would be exonerated by the police, or if tried, in the face of evidence problems, would plea bargain to a lesser charge like manslaughter or perhaps exonerated at trial.

Pinky you make no sense.You claim your response if someone were to break into your home but then condem the stupid law that would protect you.Ct is not one of the 23 that has syg law.I will not get into Ct law as you personaly need to read and make your decision. Uneducated gun owners give people a bad impression of fellow owners.

TPOV – No one is denying Zman killed this kid – the corpse, gun, bullet, etc. IS probable cause. The police don’t have to PROVE guilt, they just have to have PROBABLE CAUSE to make an arrest.

You and SPD are like Inspector Clouseau in “Pink Panther” witnessing a bank robbery, picking up the dropped bag of money, handing it to the robber, helping him into the getaway car, then using his police whistle to stop traffic to accommodate the fast exit of the getaway car.

Your last paragraph demonstrates exactly the problem with this law, which confuses people who believe in vigilantism reach a perverse conclusion as you have.

BTW the law also states someone cannot use the SYG defense after they provoked a confrontation, and the sponsor of the legislation as well as numerous other senior law enforcement officials have said it does not apply in this case.

Justthisonce, if Zimmerman’s story is true (and that’s a big if), then the SYG law would apply. He claims he stopped following Travon after being directed to do so by the 9-1-1 operator, and that Travon then confronted HIM, asking what his problem is. If this is true, then Travon confronted Zimmerman, broke his nose, and was physically assaulting him. Zimmerman then had a right to protect himself.

Zimmerman definitely killed this boy. That is not the issue. The issue is whether there is probable cause that he murdered him instead of acting in self defense. If they have evidence indicating MURDER, then they make the arrest. However, it should not be made before that.

Imagine the following scenario. I see an adult male wandering the playground that my kids are in. It appears as though he has no children there, and I become suspicious. I follow him around to make sure everyone is safe. I call 9-1-1 to have the police check it out. They tell me to stop following him and I do. This man then attacks me. I fear that he is going to wrestle my gun from me, therefore putting my life at risk. I shoot him because I believe I’m defending my own life as well as those around me. Am I to be automatically arrested in this situation? Do they say, “Hey, you sit in jail for awhile while we gather evidence.” Of course not! They would investigate the incident, but would not arrest me and press charges unless they had reason to believe that I committed a crime. BTW, in the situation I describe, this suspicious man that attacked me was not armed. Does it matter, even in CT? NOPE. I checked into it. I’d be covered under self defense laws. Let’s go on to make this a choose your own adventure story (I used to love those).

If you choose that the person I shot is white, read scenario ‘A’. If you choose that the person I shot is black, read scenario ‘B’.

Scenario A- I am commended for protecting the children from a possible predator and using force to protect the innocent.

Scenario B- The police see my story fits the evidence they have so far, and let me go. The NAACP, Rev. Jackson, and Al Sharpton demand I’m arrested. Millions portray me as a bigoted killer who only thought he was suspicious because he was black. Celebrities tweet the address of my neighborhood to millions, and my neighbor cowers in fear. The whole world convicts me of racism and vigilantism. I’m fired from my job as a teacher, lose my licence, and am forced to leave the job I have such a passion for.

If Zimmerman’s story is true, then I feel he was justified. If his story is untrue, he should be arrested and spend the rest of his life in jail. However, until I find out what the actual truth is, I will not be part of the group that ruins his life if he is innocent. It is better to err on the side of caution than the side that rushes to judgement.

As of right now, do I believe Zimmerman’s story? Not really. However, I’m going to believe it until it’s proven false. That’s how our justice system works, whether you like it or not.

TPOV – Forget alternate scenarios and stick to this one. There is plentiful probable cause for an arrest as is clear since he killed this kid after following him and then, contrary to taped instruction, exited his vehicle and approached
and confronted the victim. The senior homicide detective visited the scene, interviewed Zman, and recommend arrest based on Zman’s lack of credibility.

In the normal course of events, Zman would have been arrested, charged, and a thorough investigation conducted, followed by a trial with full ability of Zman to defend himself, provide contrary evidence, etc.

But this did not happen because the homicide detective was overruled by the police chief after a visit by the Chief State’s Attorney who drove 50 miles to
SPD from his home that night and had a separate discussion with the SPD Chief.

Since there no other suspects this action effectively terminated any
investigation so no collection of evidence, interviews, etc. The only reason there is going to be one is the Feds have intervened – and that is only because this hit the national press.

Again, this is the problem with the law – it confuses people about what they can and cannot do. The sponsor of e law has stated use of deadly force in self
defense must be a LAST resort and NOT after provocation of a confrontation.

TPOV – You are talking in circles. SPD has plentiful Probable Cause for an arrest, as evidenced by the affidavit of the chief homicide detective. You then raise the bar and demand evidence prior to arrest, which SPD let walk out the door. You then raise the bar again and demand an investigation prior to arrest, which SPD terminated at it’s initiation. Now you raise the bar yet again and demand a trial, which would require an arrest, criminal charges, an investigation and presentation of evidence publicly, all of which SPD has refused to do. Now these things are happening only due to intervention of Feds.

You have contorted yourself into a pretzel attempting to preserve the nub of the law, which is that in face of imminent threat of death, you have the right to use deadly force to protect yourself. I don’t think we need a law that says this – people will do this anyway and worry about the legal consequences later. That
is the problem with these laws – they lead people to believe they have vigilante powers and even under the language and intent of the law itself they do not.

DBrownie, “wait for the facts”? Why hasn’t a man who killed another man been put in custody? Yes, Zimmer-doodle believed he was following a law, but since the dead man was carrying nothing but SKITTLES and a can of soda, somethings wrong, dont cha think???

Pinky, while I’m not agreeing nor disagreeing with DBrownie’s assertion that Obama’s starting a race war, I can provide you with the evidence that he MAY have made this more racially charged. He said in his speech (not sure why the president is even getting involved in murder investigations)that if he had a son, he’d look like Travon. This implied that Travon’s race played a role in Zimmerman shooting him, even though there is no evidence to verify this. This could be interpreted as making this more racially charged than it was before he made the statement.

Justthisonce, I’m not talking in circles. When this first happened, a state statute made it illegal for the police to arrest Zimmerman for the shooting unless there was probable cause that it was not justified. State law indicates that they should first gather evidence to find probable cause of an UNJUSTIFIED shooting, and then make an arrest if the evidence points to that. If they gather said evidence, which it now looks as though they’ve done, they should make an arrest so he can stand trial. During the trial, the facts will be presented and his guilt will be determined. If it is determined that he is guilty through said trial, then everyone should see him as guilty (but not before). There are no circles here, it’s fairly straight forward.

I meant to say “you DON’T just go around shooting/killing people…”

You are playing semantics games. You say they don’t need evidence, you only need probable cause. However, what you fail to acknowledge, is that it’s evidence that gives you probable cause. If there’s zero evidence, then there IS NO probable cause. You can’t probable cause without any evidence at all. You don’t need proof beyond reasonable doubt yet, but you do need some evidence that a crime actually occurred (and self defense is not a crime). Therefor, you need some evidence this was not self defense in order to even have probable cause!!

And remember, this is from the state statutes:

“Florida Statute 776.032 expressly prohibits police from arresting someone who had a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm. Police may investigate, the statute says, “but the agency may not arrest the person” without probable cause.”

Wow “justthisidiot” I guess I’m not the only one you can’t control your temper with and start in with personal attacks even when they agree with you! The teacher person has proven you’re wrong and you respond by getting nasty and using stupid logic that if someone were to talk to you the way you talk to them, you’d lose your mind.

You’re just plain insufferable and have two sets of rules, one for you and another for everyone else.

TPOV – The SPD professional homicide detective investigated the scene, interviewed the perpetrator, concluded his claims of self defense were NOT credible, and recommended arrest. The SYD police chief and Chief State,s attorney exonerated the perpetrator that night. and TERMINATED the investigation. it was only restarted AFTER intervention of national press and then USDOJ.

So you think it is “reasonable” for an armed vigilante to stalk an unarmed victim, chase him down, shoot him dead, and be exonerated after saying “oh, I was defending myself”.

I think it is not only unreasonable, but a contravention of all pre-existing, well-established criminal law. it actually reverses the standard of proof and exonerates murderers without investigation.

That is the disagreement.

You can keep dodging the point but it is plain for all to see. I haven’t heard anyone, including the legislation’s sponsors and supporters defending this situation. Just you.

teacher, actually I do agree with you. A jury needs to see all the evidence before they put him in prison or give him the death penalty. I was probably jumping the gun here but I honestly don’t see where this Zimmerman guy has any defense at all. As I said, I agree with you that all the facts need to come out but in my opinion, there are enough facts already (Trayvon was not armed, Zimmerman killed him) for Zimmerman to go to prison. More evidence is needed in order to determine how harsh his punishment should be. I’m still pretty convinced that he’s guilty of murder and should be put to death.

Justthisidiot– Based on your long record of commentary here, it is plain for all to see you are a disturbed person who cannot engage in any substantive discussion without spewing a continuous stream of loud, angry, belligerent and insulting statements. I mean they are a little redundant, don’t you think? My experience in Woodstock is these people, like all bullies, are inevitably whimps. You can keep dodging the point but it is plain for all to see.

I am still back just trying to get the guy arrested, a precondition to a trial and any conviction.

As quoted by TPOV above, the statute requires REASONABLE evidence that Zman was defending himself,. Since the professional homicide detective interviewed him and determined he was not credible, Zman fails this standard and should be arrested.

The statute also states that one cannot provoke a confrontation and claim defense. Based on recorded evidence, Zman also fails this test as he clearly provoked the incident.

Another 911 tape recording was played and transcripted on the news the other
night. A man was in his house, saw two apparent burglars near his house, carrying something which he believed was stolen. While the 911 operator repeatedly told him to stay in his house, the man loaded his shotgun, and withe the 911 operator listening, went outside, confronted the two men, and shot both of them dead. The shooter was not charged due to the SYG law even though he did not seem to be defending himself.

This appears to be not just one case with a remote set of circumstances. it appears to be legalized vigilantism and is receiving institutional support from
State’s Attorney(s). This is extremely disturbing if this is a trend. There will be more and more people misinterpreting these laws (see above) and then receiving protection from the law enforcement system after committing homicide.

it’s sickening.

The state attorney’s office and the grand jury will be investigating this case. If they find that Zimmerman did in fact not retreat from his initial contact as he claims, then he will be arrested and charged. If they find that Zimmerman is telling the truth: he followed him, retreated, and then was attacked by Martin, then the SYG law will be in effect when deciding whether to arrest him or not. If they already had enough evidence to indicate the shooting was unlawful, he would already be arrested. Let’s see what they find out, and take it form there. Patience, my friend, patience….

Earlier this year a 13 year old white kid was set on fire by some black teens
In Kansas City.
CBS reported the story but deceptively edited the quote of the two blacks claiming they said: “This is what you get”

The actual quote was,
“This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.”

Again see the difference.?

Db

TPOV – I am diagnosing you with “CBTS” (not to be confused with PTSD) for “”Conservative Backward Think Syndrome”.

To explain yet again, SPD HAD probable cause for arrest, and was overruled by the State ‘s Attorney, then ABANDONED the investigation. What do you think all the controversy is about?

It was only resumed by the FBI and USDOJ who will also be investigating SPD and the State’s Attorney.

I mean, do you have rocks in you head?

No need to get nasty JTO, or I’m going to label you with LA for “Loadstar Syndrome”. I am glad that this case is being further investigated. And if that further investigation indicates an arrest should be made, then I will be glad that was justice was done. However, they may, after further investigation, still decide that charges are not warranted. Simply, I’m just waiting to see what the future holds before I pass judgement. I think that’s pretty much all I have to say on this subject.

This issue is not quite as black and white as you are making it. There is still some gray that needs to be sorted out. I look forward to seeing how it all sorts all. In all honesty, it doesn’t look good so far for Zimmerman. And if this were an act of aggression and not self defense, I hope they give him the the harshest possible penalty. I think we’re more in agreement than you think JTO. I just prefer to allow our legal system to operate a little longer before I jump to conclusions. It’s not “CBTS”, it’s patience and open-mindedness.

P.S.- I had the rocks removed last year through a very arduous surgical process.

Teacher, Your point of view is not incorrect. It’s only inhumane. I don’t need to read what reporters are saying to be repelled by a thug with a gun stalking a young black kid for no reason other that to play policeman.

My point of view is not inhumane. It’s humane to all parties involved. If it turns out that Zimmerman ends up the victim (I know, unlikely), then I will have come across as the humane one for waiting to pass judgement. If what you say is true, that Zimmerman is “a thug with a gun stalking a young black kid for no reason other that to play policeman,” then I agree. He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. I would only be inhumane if I defended him after he was proved guilty. But what I can’t seem to get through to anyone, is that it’s wrong to jump to conclusions when you don’t have all the data yet. It can even be dangerous. I feel my view is very humane, and true to our country’s standards. Honestly, people can call me whatever they want, but I will hold true to the standards I set for myself. I listen to every side of a story before I pass judgement. I do that as a parent, a teacher, and a citizen. If that makes me less than human the eyes of some, then so be it.

TPOV – Well at least you have a sense of humor, to your credit.

But i keep making the same point and you keep wondering what the disagreement is. Everyone agrees there should be a thorough investigation, get the facts as clear as possible, and Zman has the right to defend himself at trial.

The problem is the SPD/State’s Attorney truncated the investigation before it started and exonerated a murderer they had clear probable cause to arrest, putting any collection of evidence at risk. Only outside intervention by USDOJ re-started the investigation.

if you don’t get it yet, you should make note of the fact that you are alone in this circumstance.

LibDem – you have to be board certified to diagnose CBTS. This is a serious diagnosis based on medical science. it is not something to be thrown around casually. Plus, I invented CBTS. You should at least ask for a second opinion, which I will gladly provide.

DB does not suffer from CBTS, in my medical opinion. CBTS, as it’s name suggests, describes someone who actually THINKS, just backward after leaping to a conclusion, usually related to something they want, like lower taxes, for example, or vigilantism to reduce crime. The CBTS victim then perseverates with redundant, long, torturous, tangled, contradictory, continually shifting rationalizations, all based on the assumption that they are right because they “feel” right, because they are, well, they must be right, right?

I think you will agree DB’s analytical skills do not rise to this level of sophistication. Accordingly, I would say DB suffers from “MACS” or Mental Attack Chihuahua Syndrome. I named this diagnosis after my neighbor’s dog when I was a kid who would bark incessantly at us in our own yard until we sent our cat over to shut him up. DB doesn’t make enough sense to respond to and is relatively harmless.

Nope, just pointing out I’m not alone as justthisonce has implied! Though, I do have a healthy level of respect for Kevin’s opinions. They tend to help our situation at school better than some opinions of some others….

Justthisonce, nothing is definite. SYG DOES apply if Zimmerman retreated the initial confrontation. If he left to get in his car, and then was attacked from behind, it certainly does apply. I found this in several sources. Did that happen? I doubt it. Is it possible? Yes. Hence the waiting and seeing… I have not shifted my argument at all. You’re just shifting your perception of my argument. I’m not defending Zimmerman. I’m defending his right to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise. I’m not defending the SPD, I’m defending their right to be have all the facts be examined before judgement is cast.

Look, I’m with you! I have been all along. As more days pass, they seem more and more guilty. If it becomes definitely so, I’ll even join you for a march. Hand me a coffee and a sign and I have your back. I just want to see it play out a bit more first!

JTO-

My apologies. I stand corrected. MACS is a much more appropriate diagnosis for dB.

I was a bit cavalier and in retrospect was confusing CBTS with CFDS (Conservative Filter Deficiency Syndrome). CFDS is an idiopathic ‘palinesque’disorder whereby the client loses his/her innate ability to filter right wing propaganda going in and coming back out.

Not to be confused with CPDS (Conservative Parroting Distress Syndrome) where the patient merely parrots back an opposing argument using the same terms, only with the opposite intent.

In the early 19th century CPDS was commonly referred to as “No Thoughts of Their Own” Disease.

I am not a diagnostician, but Loadstar might want to get tested. Simple mouth swab. Swabs come in extra large sizes.

Again, it is USDOJ that re -started the investigation, not SPD or the Chief State’s Attorney, the top law enforcement official, which exonerated Zman and obstructed the investigation. Florida AG has nothing to do with it.

Voluminous, repeated Belligerent insults are not “opposing views” by any stretch of the imagination.

We should be outraged, but probably not surprised, no matter the outcome.

To me, what’s important is that we realize that there will be bad people doing bad things, and decent people need figure out how move on, remember the past, and do our best to do the right thing.

DB, as to “You can tell when a liberal has lost an argument when they start name calling”, I hope you don’t believe that liberals have the market cornered on that approach.

Haven’t seen any right wing opinions here and I consider myself a moderate. What I do see is extreme leftists and to them even moderates appear to be the extreme left. Do you not see that the media has doctored evidence that it has presented to you? Why would they edit out injuries to Zimmerman on the police tape and then pass it off to you as a fact? This case , just like the Duke lacross case, same players, same biased media and same extreme reaction from the left. I do not assume to know the facts of guilt or innocence, but what i do know is you commies are being programmed once again by an extreme left wing media…brainwashing in real live time.

teacherspoint, you asked this:

“Have I given the impression that I think this guy’s totally innocent and should be set free?”

No, you absolutely positively have not. justthisidiot is wrong as usual.

“Mr. Zimmerman’s father provided a different account, based on his conversations with his son. He said that George Zimmerman had lost sight of the hooded figure and was beginning to walk back to his vehicle when Trayvon appeared from his rear left side. He also described a conversation that began far differently than the one recalled by the girl on the phone.

“He did not see Trayvon until he was right there,” he said, at which point, Trayvon, cursing, asked if George Zimmerman had “a problem.”

“And George said, ‘No, I don’t have a problem,’ or ‘No, there is no problem.’ And Trayvon said, ‘You do now,’ and he punched George in the nose.””- From John’s posted article.

If the above is what happened, then SYG would CERTAINLY apply. Just waiting and seeing.

let me get this straight; commies think this is a cold blooded hate crime? we are to think George Zimmerman called police, gave his name and his location and then killed Travon in cold blood? Absurd. You on the left have been brainwashed. To moderates like myself it is another shooting of a young black man, thousands have been killed since Travon all over the country. If law enforcement believes a crime was committed, then arrest him. One of the charter elements of our justice system is innocent until proven guilty, but like today’s Obama’s threats to the Supreme Court, we all acknowledge that the left has no regard for the law, justice and our Constitution.

TPOV – not to keep repeating the point, but you keep saying get the facts. But the State ‘s Attorney and SPD Chief exonerated Zman and terminated the investigation. Only because of the press attention did the Feds re-initiate the investigation.

And the SYG law precludes a self defense claim after provoking a confrontation.

More important Is your attempt to defend this law on it’s face by speculating about the facts. Zman’s father and brother are not direct witnesses and are simply repeating what Zman told them after the fact, so there is no new or credible information here.

As stated, I do not understand why we need a law that says people.can defend themselves from mortal danger. This law and others like it represent institutionalized

Jto,is the right to defend yourself a privelage ? If so explain . I do think Zimmerman was wrong but if he ran The poor kid over with his suv would you feel motor vechile laws were wrong also ?

this was a great exercise. We had the extreme left threaten justice, fabricate evidence and hid evidence. A pure propaganda campaign from the communist race baiters. The brainwashed fell for the propaganda. Now as evidence is slowly leaked those of us in the middle laugh once again at you extreme lefties. It is why we can’t take you serious on any issue, you cry wolf so many times. This was just another attempt like the democrat created war on women scheme to divide the country in order to hide the pathetic record of the failed president. Gas prices still climbing, inflation spiking on everything we need to exist, a president attacking the constitution and making threats to the Supreme Court. Your game plan is rather boring. Next week the commies will devise a new divide and conquor tactic. How is the getting Rush off the air thing going for you? I see Olbermann got fired, again. You love that commie and he just thinks you smell funny and should not talk to him. You guys have some nerve, you are wrong on every issue, but you still argue without out shame of your ignorance.

I do not own a gun but did target, skeet and small animal hunting as a kid. I have nothing against owning or using guns. I almost bought a gun several years ago when I was traveling a lot and my wife was home with two infants and after several neighborhood break-ins and one violent attack. I finally concluded that as a home defense weapon, odds were better that I would actually misuse it rather than use it as intended. So I have kept an oak police nightstick next to my bed since. Shortly after a state trooper came by canvassing the neighborhood and warning of break-ins and one violent attack, a drunk woman with a broken down car pounded on our door yelling in the middle of the night. I slipped out back, around the front, and thought it was a man due to winter clothing. I approached aggressively with the nightstick and
pounded it on the side of the house and yelled loudly -she turned and I realized the situation and relaxed.

I talked this situation over carefully with an experienced street cop who made the point that it is very hard to think clearly when you are tired, und pressure, it is dark, and you feel in danger, and quickly and clearly check and recheck your assumptions before taking action you cannot undo. It is hard enough when you are trained and experienced let alone a suburbanite. Thus my nightstick. But then people who hunt and shoot may be mor comfortable and I would not criticize them at all -just separate the bullets from the gun, etc.