From Mary Mapes
Like every discussion, libdem has no idea what she is talking about, not a clue.
Soldiers on military bases are only armed with weapons and ammunition at the firing range. You can ask anybody that has ever served. Many will relate stories of guarding important places with their rifles, but no ammunition. That is how the Marine baracks was attacked in 1983.
As for those who tragically perish from guns, we do know from many studies that guns prevent over 2.5 million crimes a year.
I do not think libdem is smart enough to know she is using Saul Alinsky’s rules for radicals rule #13 “pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy.” It is pretty easy to follow the communists in this country from occupy to our local communists because they follow the blueprint of Alinsky to the letter.
The problem here is the people are responding; guns across the nation are sold out, bullet shelves are bought clean, the N.R.A. has over 300,000 new members and even Democrats in the Senate refuse to discuss the commie gun grab bills.
Yes, in CT, there will be a lot of new laws that are unconstitutional and will be quickly challenged.
The hypocrisy of you commies again is funny; you desire to take the abilty of people to defend themselves and you give F-16s and Abrahms tanks to the Muslim Brotherhood. You scream outrage and bloody murder over Bush’s use of pouring water up the noses of 3 terrorists and Obama puts out an executive order to kill Americans without trial or consent of Congress.
As funny as it is to listen to you commies when you’re out of power, it is far more enjoyable to listen to you useful idiots when you are in power. It won’t be long until you screw everything up with your stupid ideas. Communism doesn’t work, never worked, and never will work. The only problem with trying it again is that every time commies try, millions end up being slaughtered.
Libdem, please get a clue and maybe try to research something before you write your foolish thoughts for all to see. Your handlers would have to object that you are not being of much use as an idiot to the cause.
“you desire to take the abilty of people to defend themselves and you give F-16s and Abrahms tanks to the Muslim Brotherhood.”
Mary, why not give the F-16s and Abrahms to the Muslim Brotherhood? F-16s and Abrahms don’t kill people, people kill people. Right?
Yes, and the Muslim brotherhood have a long track record of killing people. You are a teacher?
I know that. But according to you gun defenders, it doesn’t matter if people have guns. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. That’s what you all always say. If you really believe that, then it doesn’t matter if the Muslim Brotherhood has F-16s. By your own logic, F16s don’t kill people, people kill people. Since you can’t blame the F-16s for the killings, there’s no reason they should not have them. At least that works by the NRAs twisted logic. You know Mary, my initial sarcastic response loses some of its luster when I have to explain it you. And yes, I am a teacher.
Don’t feed the troll.
Please, Kevin, you are just typical bigotted communist propagandist. Mother Theresa can’t defend herself from your hate speech.
If you are a teacher, there is no wonder our kids grades are so poor if you cant use logic in your attacks. The Pro gun crowd not only wants to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and murderers but would actually like to put those in prison who violate our current gun laws. It may be hard for you to use your brain but try here…. 71% of all gun crimes in Ct. that result in arrest are never prosecuted.
Stop with the commie propagandfa, bigotry and hate of our country and apply the information to the Muslim Brotherhood; a terrorist organization guilty of crimes against humanity, murder, rape, terrorism etc… And all you do is makle smug arrogant failed attempts at humor to defend the Crimes of Obama.
Teacher , you are a bigger fool then libdem. Your logic is flawed and your bias is obvious. You should not be educating children.
Mary, I’m pointing out that the line “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” is flawed. My example shows why. In fact, your defense shows why too. If you really believed that guns don’t make it easier to kill people (as the old ignorant saying shows) then why do you have a problem with criminals having them? It’s mind boggling to me that people still continue to think that guns are not part of the problem.
Also, I’m only going to continue having this conversation if you are respectful about it and are not taking personal shots. If you cannot play nice, then I will not continue this dialogue. It’s the same thing I tell my students. Treat people with respect when you disagree with them. I try to instill this in them because I am a good teacher, and excel at educating children.
ANYONE who disagrees with One-Dimensional Mary Must Be a “bigotted communist propagandist”. What a silly way to look at America.
And this ridiculous statement that “many studies that guns prevent over 2.5 million crimes a year.”!?! HA! TOTAL propaganda. Name them. Cite them. Prove it. (she won’t, being able only to spew ad hominem, childish insults and then quitting / retreating).
All of those so-called Studies are self-serving, totally subjective questions to macho gun owners who tell tall tales, but there is NO evidence that the actual number is even 10% of that number.
IF the actual number were even 250,000 (which it is NOT), those stories would be pushed, widely known and everywhere on Fox, conservative websites, etc.
As it stands, when even ONE such incident occurs (and there are many of them, just NEVER anywhere near 250,000 never mind the utterly ridiculous 2.5M) then that story is pushed, reprinted, repeated and held as THE example of why X, Y and Z is so necessary.
I have concealed carry permit and own many guns, including an AR-15 and incidents when ANYONE with a concealed carry permit even pulls out the weapon, saving a life or preventing a dangerous situation, are far and few between.
If I did not believe they do happen, I would not have the carry permit.
Does anyone else read Mary’s posts with the Wicked Witch of the West’s voice saying the words in your head?
Teacher, you started conversation with smug arrogance like you were making a pun at my expense.Don’t dish it out if you can’t eat it.
I have had guns for many years, not once have they been a problem. Not once have they loaded themselves and shot anything. Guns are tools that perform a specific task, not unlike a hammer, screwdriver or pencil sharpener.
We do have a people problem; including the last six national frenzy shooters who all seem to have similar traits, on mind altering medications and have progressive beliefs. Today’s mass shooter in California has a manifesto out espousing Obama and gun control.
In Woodstock we can have a pizza delivered hours before police respond to anything, but to you my gun ownership and self preservation is a problem. I can’t figure that out why you think that way, but I will have to go back to the fact you are brainwashed. Any competant educated person could not think so irrational.
PERMIT PROCESS; NRA LOCK ON FEES; ADEQUACY OF SAFETY COURSES; SELF-DEFENSE LAWS; COURSE PARTICIPANTS RECEIVE INADEQUATE TRAINING; ‘ULTRA POLITE’ AND NON-CONFRONTATIONAL WHEN CARRYING; CASTLE DOCTRINE
Just to open more discussion on many issues regarding Concealed Carry Permits, how they are obtained and whether the system is more of a joke, consider the following:
REGARDING CONCEALED CARRY PERMITS, CT (at least Woodstock / Windham County) requires a Safety Training Course as a prerequisite to obtaining a Concealed Carry Permit (I’ve obtained permits in upper NY State, NH and CT so have a little comparison experience). The NRA offers most such courses (seems to have a lock on that money-making part of the process).
More importantly for me, my Father and other responsible Adults taught me how to shoot and safely handle and store firearms, soup to nuts. By age 12 Safety was second nature (for ex., NOT putting finger ON trigger, but resting along outer trigger guard was not just second nature, but muscle memory – I did it without thinking and immediately noticed without trying whether others used this fundamental safety practice).
At age 12 I was trusted by my Father to access and use his 12 gauge shotgun whenever I liked, whether he was home or not and I did so often (a terrific Browning semi-auto, with the lines of a BAR and a ‘blowback’ reloading system whereby the entire barrel slid back to push slide back, eject and insert new round – great old gun). We used to ‘skeet shoot’ my sister’s BREAD Albums. Anyone with us was instantly ‘fired’ if they didn’t use established all safety practices, which I knew very well. I will not shoot with someone who doesn’t know / practice safety or has casual attitude toward it.
SO – when taking this required Safety Courses I learned that: 1) ONLY the NRA offered such courses conveniently / nearby and they required that all students join the NRA as part of the class; 2) The course was truly inadequate and taught only the bare minimum of what some tortoise frame eyeglass wearing lawmaker may have deemed necessary (out of touch) and in my opinion fell FAR, FAR short of comprehensive Safety and Weapons Proficiency Training and Self Defense law, never mind Judgement, detail on The Law sufficient to know HOW to make the right decision and much thinking and analysis before any such situation (no time during!) when making a fast decision about whether to take a human life / using your weapon; and 3) I was shocked to realize, upon completion, that about 80% of the other Students were just NOT qualified to handle and store weapons safely on their own, never mind carry concealed among other Citizens. It was a almost joke, provided the NRA with both forced membership payment and falsely bolstered their membership numbers with these ‘draftees’.
I’m not an expert, but I know gun Safety, weapons capabilities and ballistics, Self Defense Law in detail and all the decisions that MUST be made long before strapping on that handgun and getting in a Self-Defense situation, when it’s too late to think about those things (such as never being the ‘initiating party’, the legal Duty to Flee and why it existed (WHY in the world would someone need to ‘Stand My Ground!’ when, by law, they could flee IF and ONLY IF they can do so in safety (meaning they could not even be shot in the back – as in NO DANGER whatsoever exists anymore) – to stand ground in that circumstance serves what specific Public Interest?
To be Judge, Jury and Summary Executioner for ‘Aggravated Assault’? (‘Assault’ is legally defined as putting someone in reasonable apprehension of being harmed and does not require any touching at all; uninvited / unauthorized touching is Battery)? I have never heard a coherent argument why there would be a need to Stand Ground and fire AFTER the required ‘Imminent Danger’ simply no longer exists.
Anyway, on the day when Students of this Safety Course received their Certificates and after spending many classroom hours with them (NO Range requirement at all!) I knew that they were not even close to being qualified to carry a concealed handgun in my America, where other Citizens should have an absolutely reasonable reliance on safety and a Constitutional Right to the same.
It was kind of a joke (not funny at all) – because most of those people entered the course totally ignorant of guns at all (some obtained through inheritance and the like and wanted to carry it around) and were NOT qualified by any measure of Competence, Knowledge and Safety required for the Permit (and as required by so many other Permitting / Licensing situations, most especially where Public Safety is concerned). Many States do not even require a Safety Course as a Permit prerequisite (in NH I merely showed my Driver’s License to the local Police and obtained my permit that day).
It is not Rocket Science, but there is much to learn, know and practice, practice, practice. The alternative is to have an individual walking our streets with a legally concealed weapon who is flat-out NOT qualified with regard to all discussed above.
A good example of how inadequate is some of the preparation to own, store and carry a gun: I believe that the FIRST person convicted of a (then) new ‘Negligent Storage’ CT Law was a Hartford Police Officer, whose very young daughter found the Police-issued handgun and accidentally shot herself in the head (I don’t suggest that Police don’t know how to safely store and use their weapons, but this case did occur and is a good slap in the face – if even certain Police Officers may not fundamentals, imagine what is tolerated regarding mere citizens.
As I’ve said before, actual incidences of any concealed carry permit holder actually pulling out her / his weapon and 1) Threatening; or 2) Actually using it to prevent a crime or save a life do occur. They should be closely scrutinized on all levels, used as either good or bad teaching examples (depending on facts, of course) and prepare those carrying for encounters – when carrying, we must make many crucial decisions BEFORE strapping on the weapon. Most such citizens become extremely Polite, calm, non-confrontational, etc.
After all, they (we) absolutely do not want to get in a shouting and then wrestling match knowing we have a pistol tucked in our inner waistband which WILL come into play in a physical fight. The answer, of course, is to AVOID, AVOID, AVOID. Walk away, be ultra polite, do whatever it takes no matter if we are right and justified (let’s assume that Mr. Zimmerman was 100% right and justified, who wants to be him right now? HAD HE SIMPLY AVOIDED, he would be leading his regular life, etc.).
Finally, The CASTLE DOCTRINE – just need to mention that in most States, the Castle Doctrine merely means that there is NOT a ‘Legal Duty to Flee if possible in complete safety’. In one’s home, you are not required to run away, but I think it still makes sense. In ALL Self-Defense Cases, including in one’s home, there is still the absolute requirement that there be ‘an imminent threat of death or severe bodily harm to you or loved one’.
Simply coming in through the window at 3 am does not satisfy this legal standard (belief is nowhere near ‘reasonable’), though it does raise the stakes because such a break-in does absolutely put homeowner’s / occupants in fear. Determining whether there is an actual Threat and whether it is Imminent can be difficult, but practically speaking why be in a rush to shoot to kill rather than run out the window and call the Police?
After all, in Woodstock and in so many rural home invasions, the perpetrator may just be your 11-year old neighbor boy (weighing under 100 lbs. – a small body is far more severely harmed by being shot than heavier adolescents or adults, obviously). I have heard of several break-ins and ‘rash of burglaries’ in recent years and 3 out of 4 were perpetrated by these young kids – Summary Execution for their acts is beyond the pale).
Many myths, serious misconceptions, misinformation and SPIN, innacurate information, etc. not only abounds, but is repeated as fact and held out as Proof of one incorrect assumption / conclusion or another. It must all be dealt with and only The Truth ought to remain – you’ll recognize when this has happened because it starts to make sense and most of us know the Truth when they see it. The idea that there are actually TWO AND ONE HALF MILLION incidents per year in America where guns are used for protection of law-abiding citizens is obviously a self-serving, invented myth, yet there are many bona-fide such incidents.
We all know that groups on all sides (with extremist NRA leadership / Wayne L. in a category of their own) have strong interests in all of these topics and seek to influence the actual information, SPINNING it, who hears of it and how and creating certain self-serving information of their own is the status quo. We are put in a position to strongly challenge most all information, SPIN, ‘Studies’ and assertions. The arguments are a thing unto themselves.
It’s too bad that many gun control advocates don’t know about guns, their capabilities, ballistics, safety, etc. in the same way that experienced gun owners and users (it sounds, and is, ignorant for ‘pundits’ to talk about ‘high capacity clips’ – it is a magazine, never a ‘clip’ – and lately they rush, so we hear things like ‘high clip magazines’ and similarly incorrect nomenclature that borders on maloprop and betrays the ignorance of the speaker, harming credibility.
Mary, thank you for engaging in a respectful, reasonable fashion. I don’t completely disagree with you. I support the right for people to own guns. I think they should be able to carry handguns, and keep hunting rifles. However, I see no reason why someone needs an assault rifle. I think we need to reach compromise and avoid the attacks. I someone wants to keep a gun in their house for protection, that should be there right. However, some guns make it easier for people to kill more people in a shorter time. I’m not sure anyone needs those. And when the “sick” people you speak of get them, it will cause more harm than if they only get a handgun. That’s the only point I’m trying to make. I would own a gun if I thought it made me safer. However, studies show it’s far more likely it will be used against a member of my house than used to defend one, so I make the choice not to own. However, if someone feels, that in their situation, they’re safer owning a gun, then that should be their right.
Again, con slimed her way out from under some rocks with the tiring attack on Fox news. The extreme left controls all media except Fox and a few talk radio radio stations. Case in point, the commie media has done pointed gun control stories to gun right stories at a 99 to 1 margin.
Con is up set because the commie full court press is a failure because calls to Congress supporting gun rights against commie gun laws are about 99 to 1. People are voting with their wallets and guns, and ammo across the country are selling so face that many manufacturers have a one year back order.
Calling me a liar is typical of this slimey propagandist; just do a google search of “how many crimes stopped per year from gun owners”. You will find many studies and different numbers, most in the millions. I choose the high one.
Time after time this con job always chooses to attack the constitution, religion and traditional American values. Who would have guessed which side of the argument this communist propagandist would side on.
mary – if you EVER proved your silly assertions or even offered bona fide, objective evidence we would be shocked. Instead you retreat into your little echo chamber where merely calling a name makes it TRUE; asserting ‘he attacks Constitution’ makes it true.
When in the world will you SHOW what you assert? In what SPECIFIC, DETAILED WAY can you show that “this con job chooses to attack the constitution”?
By that logic, I have totally won by asserting that your silly fantasy number of ‘millions of uses of guns by law abiding citizens’ is, in fact, invented, wrong, self-serving and has NO evidence or support.
We expect more from thinking Americans, YOU COMMIE! (There, I have by your logic PROVED that mary is a commie who hates America and loves Terorrists who want to kill Americans!’
Your basic argument is that of the PHELPS church – and, wow, do you repeat the same childish assertions – even Fox news would demand much more from you. Your credibility is in the gutter and you must make many PROOFS to ever, ever be believed as anything more than a Parrot / SHeeple of Rush, Hannity, et al
THINK FOR YOURSELF; PROVE YOUR ASSERTIONS AND ARGUMENTS
There are absolutely NOT 2.5 Million uses of guns to prevent crimes or save lives by citizens. You have a long, long way to go in order to prove that fantasy myth propaganda…
And what is the silly obsession with COMMIES? Is it 1952? Come back to us; or better yet, go directly to the WND website where many more are like you – narrow, shallow thinkers who retreat from proving a thing because they have no proof, no argument…
Glad to have pushed your buttons, though! Shows how correct I am.
Con, you could never push my button. With you quoting daily kos, media matters, msnbc, abc, cbs, nbc, cnn piers morgan etc.. is far from evidence. I cleaned your clock with just you writing your first sentence. The defense rests.
I am sure this echo chamber will all agree with you and try to out commie you, but call up Cabelas and see if you can buy an ar15 or ammo. Call up Jim Himes and see how the commie gun grab is going. As far as the 2.5 mil crimes prevented from gun ownership; this has been presented in front of our Sate Congress and the U.S. Congress and not challenged even by the biggest commies there. Go back under your rock
If you keep feeding it, it will be back…
Thanks,
Kevin
What would have prevented the Newtown tragedy?
If Omar Thornton had received a security detail while still in the distribution complex, …(see Ivegot Anidea’s new article. Admin).
Kevin, we can’t help it! It’s like slowing down as you pass a car wreck…
Mary, below are some reasons from a CNN opinion piece as to why the 2.5 million number is so inflated. There are loads of articles disputing your study.
1) Even if you think the 2.5 million statistic was correct at the time it was computed, it must be obsolete today, for the same reason that the victimization survey data is obsolete. The 1995 study that generated the figure of 2.5 million defensive gun uses was based upon data collected when crime rates were vastly higher than they are today. Some of the data was collected in 1981, near the very peak of the post-Vietnam War crime wave. It’s just incredible on its face that defensive gun use would remain fixed at one level even as criminal attempts tumbled by one-third to one-half.
2) When we hear the phrase “defensive gun use,” we’re inclined to imagine a gun owner producing a weapon to defend himself or herself against bodily threat. Not so fast. The authors of the 1995 study aggregated 13 prior polls of gun users, most of which did not define what was meant by “use.” As the authors of the 1995 aggregation study themselves ruefully acknowledged: “The lack of such detail raises the possibility that the guns were not actually ‘used’ in any meaningful way. Instead, (respondents) might be remembering occasions on which they merely carried a gun for protection ‘just in case’ or investigated a suspicious noise in their backyard, only to find nothing.” In other words, even if the figure of 2.5 million defensive gun uses had been correct at some point back in the early 1990s or early 1980s, the vast majority of those “uses” may be householders picking up a shotgun before checking out the noises in the garage made by raccoons rooting through the trash.
3) The figure of 2.5 million defensive gun uses is supposed to represent the number of such uses per year. Yet none of the studies aggregated in the 1995 paper measured annual use. Most asked some version of the question, “Have you ever?” Two asked instead, “Have you within the past five years?” The authors of the 1995 study took those latter two surveys, multiplied the rate in the survey by the number of U.S. households, then divided by five to produce an annual figure.
But people’s memories of fixed periods of time are highly unreliable. It’s not very likely that many respondents thought, “Today it’s August 1990. I do remember scaring off a prowler in June 1984. But that was more than five years ago, so the answer to the question is ‘No.’ Not within the past five years.”
More likely they thought, “I’ll never forget the night I warned off a prowler with my shotgun. That was scary. Man, I’m glad I had my gun ready. When was that anyway? Three years ago? Four? I don’t remember exactly, but the answer to the question is ‘Yes.’ ”
4) Meanwhile, over in the world of hard numbers, the FBI counted an average of 213 justified firearm homicides per year over the period 2005-2010. If the figure of 2.5 million defensive gun uses were any way close to accurate, it would imply that brandishing a gun in self-defense led to a fatality only 0.00852% of the time. That seems almost miraculously low.
5) Underneath all these statistical problems is a larger conceptual problem. When we hear “defensive gun use,” we’re invited to think of a law-abiding citizen confronting a criminal aggressor. Yet crime does not always present itself so neatly. The vast majority of homicides take place between intimates, not strangers. Assaults, too, are often an acquaintance crime. When guns are produced by two parties to a confrontation, one party may deter the other. Yet it may be seriously misleading to designate one of these persons as a “criminal” and the other as a “law-abiding citizen.” Perhaps when we hear “defensive gun use,” we should not imagine a householder confronting a prowler. Perhaps we should think of two acquaintances, both with some criminal history, getting into a drunken fight, both producing guns, one ending up dead or wounded, the other ending up as a “DGU” statistic — but both of them entangled in a scenario that would have produced only injuries if neither had carried a gun.
From- http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/opinion/frum-guns-safer
Teacher’s Point of View (#11), an assault rifle is EXACTLY what you need to protect your home from a home invasion by professional gang members. It’s small, easily handled, powerful, has lots of bullets, and will scare off anyone facing it. Good luck with your pump-action or bolt-action deer rifle that is so long it bumps into hallway walls.
Here is a stat published in the NY times of all places; 83% of all people will be a victim of a violent assault in their life time. Thed odss of winning the powerball are greater then 240 million to 1 and people play it all the time.
If you would like to be in the 87% and become a victim, good for you, I shoose to be in the 17%.
By the way teach, all guns are assault guns. The AR15 may scare you , but it is a .223 made for rodent hunting. The Nato round is a 62 grain weight. Your typical pretty deer rifle fires on average a 140 grain weight. Although your deer hunting rifles are less firghtening, they pack more of a punch, and instead of a hole in you, they would take off your arm or leg.
I have no data but I would bet Dr. Petite now has a gun in his home and on his person. Probably a few other survivors from the 83% of victims.
here is link http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/09/us/83-to-be-victims-of-crime-violence.html
I get a kick out of people who rely on 26 year old studies to try to make a point supporting an extremist agenda. They need to find one study to support their views, and need to ignore anything else. A simple google search shows studies much more recent.
Here is one published by the DOJ that shows crime rates much lower that took me about 15 seconds to find.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv09.pdf
you can draw your own conclusions, but anyone who thinks that 83% of people will be a victim of violent crime is a fool.
Also, if you think that a deer rifle does more damage than a military assault rifle, you are also a fool. Why do the military and gun nuts both want these rifles instead of assault rifles? Use some common sense, and if you need a physics lesson on why, I can give it.
Not that I’m “opposed” to trying to prevent school shootings, but I really have a hard time envisioning WPS or WA as a “prison-school.” I appreciated the openness and freedom there.
Creating an environment with locks and cameras bars and guards and guns and metal detectors and all that crap would, for me, create a tense environment of mistrust and make things feel overly-complicated in general (there’s enough complication with, well, everything already). We’re already hypersensitive about airline/border control security to the point that, from what I hear, it’s a PITA to go anywhere, and God forbid you go through the special machine or get the special interrogation in the airport.
We are a fearful society. The more we try to prevent bad things, the more worried about them we’ll get, and the more new ways for a tragedy to occur will get figured out. If a murderer can’t get to people in a public place, it’ll be your home next, for example. And what if some of those security measures fail? For example, what if one of those security guards with a gun is having a bad day — isn’t the great person they seem to be after all? Then how anxious will you be about everything else failing?
Might as well just eliminate recess, school buses, and more, because they’re targets for tragedies.
In fact, you’re a target as you’re sitting here reading this. Somebody could be looking at you now waiting to shoot you and rob your house (or wherever you happen to be). There could be an atom bomb on its way down.
And what will all these wonderful security measures in schools due for parents who must get their children from school? If it’s an emergency? Think about delivery people, UPS, Fedex, food service, etc. and all the grief it would cause them.
Not to mention issues with alumni visiting the school. Even before Newtown, Woodstock Academy had strengthened its security on visiting alumni, and the alumni that I’ve heard about visiting feel the process of visiting is overcomplicated and they just don’t feel welcome.
Here’s a question for some food for thought: Can you have security and friendliness/a feeling of welcome simultaneously? Prisons — no. Government buildings — no. Airports — no. Banks — no. Corporations — no. I doubt you want to be in any of these places, and making a school, for crying out loud, like that just wouldn’t be psychologically healthy from my perspective.
I think some worthy security measures to take are:
- Security cameras everywhere
- Staff personnel near each entrance of the building (but keep the freaking doors unlocked… I couldn’t stand locked doors at WA, and if someone REALLY wanted to get in the building, they could join the crowd during the between-blocks rush or get buzzed in pretending to be doing something legitimate, so why bother)
- Some sort of metal barrier that would be lowered in the hallways to contain a perpetrator in a time of crisis. This barrier could also be used to prevent fires/smoke from spreading. I think WMS already has something like this — those metal frames in the halls with indentations in the floors.
- An increased amount of lockdown drills and other training of students as to how to respond during a crisis and how to identify something out of place and what to do about it
As an aside, I really think there should be fire drills during unusual times. For example, if the alarm were to sound in the 6 minutes there are between classes, what would happen? Or immediately before or after school hours? Or during a lunch block? Or during an assembly? I’d love to sound the alarm and watch the chaos ensue on the common at WA — it would be quite a source of entertainment, I’m sure. The problem with current fire drills is that they occur during ideal times — non-lunch, non-assembly, they’re always planned, the class and teacher are together, etc. A problem I have with WA specifically is that it has no obvious codename for a lockdown. For example, I remember Mr. Gamache coming on the intercom at WMS and informing us that if we heard “Mr. Strong, please report the office,” the school was to go into lockdown. There’s nothing like that at WA. Are they supposed to get on the intercom while someone’s running around getting ready to shoot people and say “There’s an intruder in the school and we’re going into lockdown”?
.223 was designed for the military to mame rather than kill. Mary has very valid points.Military style guns are simply a style and dont have the 3 round burst select like the real military version. I wonder if we should ban the Hummer and H3 since they are based on military vechiles? Those who cant do teach, you dont have a plumber fix your car, fences make good neighbors and people who think they know everything ruin it for those who do.
Numbers, if you get attacked with “professional gang members”, I’m not sure I like your chances even with an AR-15. Let me ask you a question, which of the two scenarios below are more likely?
Scenario 1-
Your house gets attacked by a group of professional gang members. You successfully fight off the group of gang members with your A-15, taking out multiple enemies single-handed. Your entire family is saved.
Scenario 2-
You AR-15 is used against you and your family and becomes a tragic news story.
I know which scenario the studies show to be more likely. Do you?
Mary, maybe Dr. Petite wished he had a gun in his house that day. However, I bet Nancy Lanza would wish she didn’t(if she were alive today). Also, the problem with the AR-15 is the rate of fire. No on cares if the limbs were blown off. Dead is dead. The rate of fire allowed him to kill more quickly. The bullets were plenty effective. How many people were only injured at Sandy Hook as opposed to killed? The gun was apparently plenty powerful.
Dean you are a fool, an ar 15 is far less lethal then a deer rifle. Your crazy agenda is based on lies, Like Biden saying he itnessed by ear a mass shooting (that was indoors and over 10 miles from hem) Hillary ducking sniper fire in Bosnaia, Biden again ducking sniper fire in Afghanistan, Obama who goes shooting all the time.
Before you type your propaganda, talk to someone familiar with both the varmit .223 round and the deer layer 140 grain round.
For those of you who are actually wondering and have the capacity for rational thought, this is the difference.
An AR-15 has a muzzle velocity of 3110 ft/sec (the speed the bullet travels when it leaves the barrel of the gun).
A typical deer rifle has a muzzle velocity that can range between 1500 to about 2500 feet/second.
The higher velocity causes the bullet to spin faster through the air. The spinning causes the bullet to start to tumble end over end when it hits something hard like a bone. You can only imagine the damage this causes as the bullet tumbles through a body.
This rifle was designed in the Vietnam War. The idea was that it would produce a wound that in the past would have been a only a “flesh” wound that someone could recover quickly from and now would be a devastating wound that would either cause a wound that someone cant recover from or result in an amputation or other extreme response that would permanently take that person off of the battlefield.
This is why people do not use AR15s to hunt, it causes too much damage. AR15s sole job is to cause as much damage to a body as possible.
Then you have our new Senator Murphy showing up to the State Police range with a bullet proof vest to try to scare people. Anybody in the know knows that vest would not stop a bullet from a high velocity rifle, but like you commies, he has to scare people.
It doens’t matter what the issue, you people use Alinsky’s rules for radicals. Teacher ,Dean, Libdem Kevin pretend to be experts on every subject from the brainwashing web sites, doesn’t matter the issue. If you ever read the Crucible in high school about the witch trials and how it related to the communist hunts of McCarthy you can see that you people are on a continual witch hunt. You are full of fear and low on facts and are in a rush To ban guns, put Zimmerman in prison and it doesn’t matter what the facts are.
In the future, people will look on you commies as the worst Americans ever, baby killing, rights violation bigoted hateful people.You will fail with your witch hunts, the rule of law and Constitution is on the opposing side.
I’m in Tulsa doing this. Sorry for being a little slow to post. In the 50s here.
OK, Mary, you were playing nicer, so I continued the conversation. However, now that you’ve called me baby killing, bigoted, and hateful, it’s become obvious you are refusing to have a respectful conversation that sticks to the topics. I am now done with this discussion.
Dean the. 223 is not a caliber to hunt with. The minimum in Ct is .243 because. 223 doesnt cut the mustard compared to a 7.62*54 or a 30-30.
Anon, doesnt change the conclusion of why an Ar15 does more damage than a hunting rifle.
Dean your wrong. The ar15 shoots a .223 round. The nato version is a 62 grain weight. If you were to hunt deer with this weapon, you would not kill the deer, or actually not right away. You will put a hole in the deer and it will run away and then possibly day a few weeks later of infection.
The ar 15 is used widely by hunters for gophers, and the Louisiana beaver like things i think they are called hydras. The ar 15 is accurate for the average person up to 300 hundred yards but is far less lethal then a deer round. You are so wrong.
Attorney general has said that he must brainwash people about guns, and you are living proof he is successful. You keep arguing a false point when you are clearly and easily prvably wrong.
You may have some of your fellow brainwashed commies convinced because you did a stint in the national guard, but those in the know , know you have no idea what you are talking about.keep embarassing yourself.
Teacher’s Point of View #24. How is my AR-15 going to be used against me when it is sitting next to my bed and my dog barks and it is in my hands? You are quoting statistics and I am a case of one on the tail end of those statistics. It would only be used against me if I stored it right next to the entrance of my house in plain view of invaders instead of right next to my bed where I can reach it in a second. So we should lie down and let home invaders kill us? We should let them take our stuff because we are afraid to defend ourselves? We should put our hands up and whimper for mercy?
Mary, Mary, Mary. Up to the same old tricks, but I must say, ou’ve done better this time…lots of people getting riled up by your trolling. Commies were a popular target back in the 50′s. Are you into the retro thing now?
Dean’s understanding of the realities of assault rifles is dead on. A .22 round and a NATO 5.56 are not remotely similar and any comparison between the two simply causes me to shake my head.
You would only use such a round for hunting if you want an exit wound the size of a grapefruit. Not an ideal round to hunt with for that reason, plenty deadly though.
Thanks,
Kevin
Numbers, you actually keep a loaded weapon next to your bed?
Do you ever have children in your house?
For those of you following the Mary thread, a dose of common sense, do you really think that the US military would pick a rifle where a round just passes through and allows the person to keep running around. And is less powerful than a deer rifle?
JK,
It certainly is the most interesting thread it has ever started. But not I’m not even following my own advice. TPOV is right about the train wreck effect.
Dean,
Article about the effectiveness of the 5.56. Personally I give more weight to the experiences of fellow veterans than anonymous internet trolls:
http://www.futurefirepower.com/myths-about-the-nato-556-cartridge
Whenever I’ve heard people start talking about it being a .223 and using terms similar to “varmint rifle” they are invariably trying to get people to think these rounds are similar to .22s when they are a whole different beast.
Thanks,
Kevin
It is a sad state of affairs when citizens are forced to understand and utilize guns to the extent that we do in America, but unfortunately there is no strong argument against owning guns for self defense. Whether the fear is real or contrived (or exploited), we are bombarded daily with the news of yet more and more atrocities taken out on innocent people.
The failure of our government to protect its people is quite apparent. While embarking on a new war- The War on Terror- our government has dropped the ball on other such broad rhetorical wars- The War on Drugs, The War on Crime, The War on Poverty, The War Against Violence on Women. While crime rates had dropped in the 90′s they are rising once again. This drop was not attributed to greater law enforcement or smarter criminal justice programs. Interestingly some have thought it to be the effects of Roe v Wade (a theory which has been debunked) and now, most recently, a theory proposes that the drop in use of lead paint in inner cities has led to less violence (google it if you don’t believe me).
Perhaps if our country invested the kind of money we have spent on the “War on Terror”- or on our imperialistic neocon/neoliberal expansion (translation: “spreading democracy”)- on our domestic problems such as crime, drugs, poverty, gang violence, job loss, the need for everyday Americans to feel so compelled to purchase guns in mass quantity (for self protection) would be much less.
But there has been a mantra over the last 30 years- I’ll call it the Reagan Revolution- which has called for less and less spending domestically to protect our own citizens. Less on education, less on healthcare, less on infrastructure, less on fighting crime and drug use. This mantra has succesfully indoctrinated the American public to believing that spending on themselves is bad (socialism!!), and that this spending only creates big government and higher taxes. Then, after starving our government for 30 years, these same Reagan Revolutionaries say: “See! Look! See how ineffective and feeble our government is!!” And everyone believes them- while all around us, the institutions which made America great are crumbling and we are beginning to look like our country did in its Wild, Wild West days.
So while broader gun control and greater mental healthcare accessibility may be factors in curbing gun violence, my guess is that it will have a limited effect. The bigger issue that needs to be addressed is a renewed investment in America and her people so that our economy will turn around, poverty will be abated, drugs marginalized, healthcare and retirement secured, education more affordable, our environment and infrastructure protected into the future. Imagine what this kind of investment would do for us all. Imagine the level of security and less stress this would provide us. Imagine how our Happiness scores would finally grow, where presently they lag way behind other industrial countries who do invest in ALL there citizens, not just the 1%?
This is not communism or socialism. This is being fair, being patriotic, and being hopeful for a greater future for our children.
But just last week, House Majority leader Republican John Boehner was quoted as staying that the way to fiscal prosperity is the cutting of our entitlements. Essentially repeating the last 30 year conservative mantra that has failed us…that investment in our citizens is the wrong path to take. So let me get this straight Mr. Boehner: The American people bailed out the criminals who created this Lesser Depression, they have suffered the consequences of this crisis through job loss, home foreclosures, and retirement losses. They have limited access to healthcare and education which are both skyrocketing in cost, they have funded two wars, are living in fear of crime and drug related violence…and now you want to cut their healthcare and social security??
Its no wonder why Americans are buying guns in droves. They feel less protected, more vulnerable and totally stressed out more than they ever have since the Great Depression. Its about time our government starts working for us and not for special interest profit making.
If the 223 or 556 is so much more devasting of a round, Why don’t deerhunters use it? Surely we would want our deer killed in more humane manner.
These ar 15s are used by hundreds of thousands of hunters all over the country for shooting, groundhogs, prarie dogs, rats and other small game.
I never said that the ar 15 was not lethal, on the contrary, I said it was far less damaging then a deer round.
The history of the ar15 or m 16 military version is that when it was introduced , it lightened the load for the Infantry. A lighter weapon system with smaller ammuniniot brought more fight to the battlefield. Part of the thought process is that the m16 was more likely to wound then kill. On the battlefield for every enemy you kill= 1 enemy off the battle field. For every enemy you wound =removes 3 enemies from the battlefield.
Before you have Kevin and Dean try to fool and confuse with propaganda, go to a gun store, Cabelas and ask somebody who knows. Yhis is their typical propaganda witch hunt trying to scare people.
The advantages of the ar15 over other weapon systems are its weight, laser percision up to 300 yards(before you have to adjust for windage and drop), easy to use, easy to clean and perform maintenance, ability to fire well in adverse conditions.
There are many reason our military choose this weapon, but to say it is more lethal then a deer rifle is foolish at best.
Ask any Vet, the advantage of an M16 is not:
laser precision up to 300 yards without adjusting for windage/drop)
ability to fire well in adverse conditions
easy to maintain (I knew soldiers who would procure dentist tools to get to nooks and crannies to maintain the rifle)
By all means, rely on the advice of that sage salesman at Cabelas, the expert.
after reading some of the posts here i went and did more looking. It appears and why should believe you (who i dont know) vs.a different post? alot of what i was able to find and from talking to other service members some of which are active now, the .223 was chosen for several reasons.lighter recoil,less weight= ability to carry more ammo.It is effective on torso shots but will pass through limbs. Some of the other blogs i was reading were a mixed review of .223 or .308. I dont know where the .22 came from but a .223 and 5.56 are very similar.
When you have px commandos and chairborn Rangers trying to push fear on the the readers of this blog , it proves my point; None of you have any idea what your talking about on any subject. Even after you are proven wrong, you still argue your leftist points to no end. Dean i know pretty well lots of Vets, but of the Infantry type that have actually used the gun in question and have seen close up what the damage looks like. Never said there wasn’t damage, but said it was far less then a deer hunting rifle in the point to say that you are foolish for singling out one gun because it was scary looking, go up to the top and see for yourself.
There is a reason it is illegal to unt deer with an ar 15 in this state, the reason it is because it is considered inhumane. The reason is it doesn’t kill the deer, it maims it, not because of the massive exit wound.
Do yourself a favor and look up the rounds on Cabelas. You will see the name of the rounds are varmint master, varmint terminator, varmint extreme, etc…
So are we to believe these are magic guns the ar15? Because it is scary and plastic that it magically transforms the bullets from rat killers in the wood gun, to extremely deadly massive exit wound plastic guns.
I know a guy who plows the parking lot at the hospital, but I wouldn’t let him tell me how to do a heart by pass. Sitting in a ratrig eaves dropping is not really a hardened vet.
But in someways i do agree with deano, it is a great combat weapon as well as a superior home defense weapon. A pistol for example has one or two points of contact on the operator and requires great skill to be proficient on. The ars rely on 4 points of contact and even a novice can be very proficient with very little instruction. I would consider the ar15 the iphone or ipad of the gun world.
Dean,
I spent a lot of time cleaning my M-16. The A-2′s were much better in adverse conditions but certainly not great.
As far as not having to adjust for drop at 300 yards, that’s complete BS. I always had to adjust for 300 meter targets.
Thanks,
Kevin
I didn’t know people that spent all their time with the gear in the rear spent “a lot of time with m16s”
Yes Mary the Ar is good for home defense since they have all kind of different rnd’s now.Not all Ar’s come in .223. you can order in bigger calibers.The SKS is also a nice rifle.Lots of add on’s,and about 1/3 of the price. the sks does reach out farther and i can deer hunt with it.NO i dont use a 20 rnd clip but the stripper clips work well. Surplus ammo is cheap.
And that’s why you don’t engage with trolls. He(she) is willing to say whatever it takes to get a rise out of us. Sorry, I’m not engaging in that.
Attacking US veterans, nice. Now we know a little bit about this person and just like everything we’ve seen before, it isn’t pretty.
Thanks,
Kevin
I never attacked a U.S Veteran. I exposed a liar who was attacking the Constitution with false testimony.
All Of our military take and oath to protect and defend against enemies of our Constitution foreign and domestic.
An overwhelming majority of veterans will find that Kevin , pretending to be something he is not is a far greater offense then calling a remf or a pogue or a wonk what they are. No shame in being a support troop, but don’t pretend you are soemthing other then that, especially to push commie propaganda.
What we established here is Kevin again, is a liar, and con job too; how many 11 year olds have you heard of creeping in through bedroom windows. Their agenda is dangerous , unconstitutional and lacks common sense. Their communist utopia is unachievable.
I hope this is a lesson for you all in the future when these hateful people try to influence your opinion using lies and propaganda. Don’t go to the lefty blogs, they will assert the same anti-america agenda, go to the source and the truth.
Although i believe kevin believed his own propaganda training, but he went back to research my assertions and found out I was right. He had to come back and make a baseless claim that I was dishonoring Veterans to save some face. Doesn’t work buddy.
Mary, pushing your buttons is as effortless as teasing a child – you are utterly predictable and it’s completely obvious that all of your information spewed endlessly is not original to you; it’s equally obvious you give no thought to the continued, simplistic propaganda you repeated from your daily does from websites like ‘humanevents’, etc. and most especially your seeming FAVORITE ‘WND; (.com after each). WND in particular prints one day what you repeat the next – they have been posting ‘a revolutionary expose’ on the epidemic of ‘Black Mob Rampages’ occuring everywhere in America, maurauding groups of ‘the blacks’ rampaging in white malls and suburbs and, of course, totally ignored by the liberal media.
One of today’s main headlines of this oh-so credible website TOTALLY free from bias or bigotry is “DETROIT FACING SURGE OF BLACK VIOLENCE ‘I value life and simply won’t put myself or my loved ones at risk’
Mary you seem to swallow this garbage hook-line-and-sinker without even challenging any part of this propaganda, self-serving and utterly biased fantasy regarding how ‘the blacks’ are simply ruining ‘OUR AMERICA!’, intent on taking over through pure violence and coordinated attacks on ‘the whites’.
DO YOU share these bigoted beliefs as you do with most all other beliefs expressed on (Overwhelming case for Obama impeachment; Obama visits Israel to secretly meet with and support HAMAS; Obama picks Muslim as CIA head; Southern Poverty Law Center is itself a ‘Hate Group’ and Inspires Floyd Lee Corkins’ Attempted Mass Shooting; The List goes on).
ALL you seem capable, like most Sheeple, is to repeat what you hear from highly biased, extremist ‘pundits’ asserting that Obama has secret agenda to destroy America, trash the Constitution and create an Islamist State.
WHY don’t you post any original thoughts or ideas? We would welcome a change from the same old, tedious record played over and over. Show us your best, intelligent and ORIGINAL thoughts and ideas – Please! As it stands, we don’t argue with mary makes, but with Islamic-phobia Hannitty, Limbaugh, Beck, et al.
Why can you not THINK FOR YOURSELF, mary – my Fellow American (though you seem to hate even your own great nation)? WHY, mary, do you seem to hate America? The rest of us do not; far from it. We seek to improve what is already the greatest nation on earth; the greatest nation ever conceived and created by it’s Citizens and the Constitution: a combination so awesome that, combined, has never been defeated, always prevailed and always will prevail. We love America and no force on earth can shake,
And BTW, there is simply NO comparison between the ,=.223 and the .308. For you to suggest that is ludicrous and shows, again, your source of information is simply dead wrong (just compare bullet grain, muzzle velocity and especially Muzzle Energy. I own both such rifles, both in the form factor commonly known as ‘Black Rifles and the differences are stark.
And, yes, the AR-15 was first conceived because of it’s comparatively lighter weight and that of it’s ammunition – a great advantage when ‘humping’ for miles carrying both weapon and sufficient ammunition .
We ALL look forward to your move away from your typical Sheeple repetition of what you’ve been told to think each day, toward your very best efforts at Original Thoughts and Ideas.
Are you up to the task, Mary? Can you meet the challenge without once again acting The Sheeple of this website?
PS – Your over-use of the word ‘Commie’, while the subject of much deserved ridicule, is simply off-the-mark no matter what the context and further betrays the depths of your vast ignorance…
Troll rampage!!!!! Very amusing.
For the record, I was in intelligence. A REMF if you will, spending time in S2 of a aviation Bn and intelligence Bn in Korea. I never claimed I was anything but. I also qualified as expert on the M16 and like all enlisted guys spent plenty of time with it.
See the troll roar!!!
Thanks,
Kevin
Congratulations con the commie. It only took her about 800 words to say that since I support the constitution and my 2nd ammendment rights I am a racist. Why do commies always resort to the rqacism over used charge when they lose an argument ?
Con is the one fixated with 11 year old boys coming in through his or her bedroom window.
I have lived in this community for 3 decades and never have I heard of 11 year old boys sneaking into a window, but then the life style of con is probably a little different then our lifestyle.
Racism charge?It is getting old, but commie charge? you are still a commie no doubt.
Mary –
You keep dodging the most important challenge – why is that? Can you possibly explain it?
“We ALL look forward to your move away from your typical Sheeple repetition of what you’ve been told to think each day, toward your very best efforts at Original Thoughts and Ideas.
Are you up to the task, Mary? Can you meet the challenge without once again acting The Sheeple of this website?
PS – Your over-use of the word ‘Commie’, while the subject of much deserved ridicule, is simply off-the-mark no matter what the context and further betrays the depths of your vast ignorance…”
Mary –
DO YOU favor the Website WND (.com)?
Are you truly anti-American, as you seem?
Hating America as you do, why take so much of it’s Welfare? That makes mary a COMMIE!
Worst, mary cowardly dodges and avoids any intelligent challenge to her so-called thinking; fails utterly to prove a single point or over-broad assertion. She seems a shallow fraud in that regard (though probably quite a nice person, just not a ‘True America’).
Mary – it is time for you to leave this nation you seem to hate so much; you are in the vast minority and ALL you seem able to do is whine, whine, whine and complain about America, it’s great Citizens and it’s awesome Constitution.
Reading 27 words of an Amendment does not mean you, nor those telling you what to think, know exactly how the SCOTUS has interpreted it into The Law of The Land. Mary, how many SCOTUS case laws have you ever read? Truly understood?
THINK FOR YOURSELF, mary – try something new and liberating.
Con, you lost the debate, or rather you were never in the debate. Your are in far left commie fantasy land. You ,Kevin and Dean presented lies, fabrications and exagerations to try to take rights away from citizens.
You accuse me of the same crimes that you continue.
More Allinsky rules for radicals.I have clearly defeated you on this debate and caught you in lies, fabrications and gross exagerations.
when you go to media matters, daily kos, my left nutmeg, huffington post, msnbc, cnn, abc, cbs, etc for your info, you continue to get brainwashed. Your brainwashing is so severe that when truth, and obvious truth is presented to you, you react the same way.
Happy Darwin Day everybody!
When you call everyone who disagrees with you a commie or in the case of ultra liberals, a fascist pig, when every argument proposed boils down to “because I said so,” when a person calls every fact with which s/he disagrees a lie, there can be no rational discussion.
According to news reports, Obama is going to make gun control a central issue in his State of the Union Address. I hope someone posts a cogent critique of his proposals so we can start a new, less pointless thread on what is a very serious issue.
Everyone, I am pretty confident that 99% of the people get the type of person that Mary is, time to ignore.
Diane,
Which was most likely “Mary’s” intent all along. There is nothing to be gained from engaging trolls.
Thanks,
Kevin
“You Commies!” reminds me of “You Morons!” If you know who called us “morons” then you will understand the problem.
Preston Shultz? He’s still around?
Mary. One of your finest efforts. So many replies, and somehow people think you care about logic, and will eventually reply with logic. Points to you.
silly mary, in order to ‘win the debate’ takes more than your typical “you COMMIE!” Just because I can so easily push your many buttons doesn’t mean you should keep allowing it by name-calling.
We have not yet seen you follow the rules of Debate On The Merits. Look it up. Your angry impotence act is getting old – put your mind where your mouth is.
Don’t just be that pitiful ‘armchair warrior’ watching your Echo Chamber TV brainwashing you into more of the same angry impotence, hating your own great nation because most Patriots disagree with you flat-out.
So please prove yourself or consider yourself defeated once and for all and stop your playground silliness: PROVE to us all in what Specific, Detailed and Factual way do/have I “presented lies, fabrications and exaggerations to try to take rights away from citizens.”? If you can’t do that much, just admit your defeat. Prove your point or keep my name out of your mouth.
TELL US ALL: What lies, fabrications and exaggerations, exactly? In what way did I “try” (a weak word) to take which exact rights away and from which specific citizens? Explain that silly, over-broad statement – if it’s true, it should be easy for you; otherwise, quit now as a failure.
Making an accusation is weak and empty – you must prove it out fully or be the quitter we suspect you are – someone beyond her depth, knowing that I am far too much of a match for you (I am).
***
PS – Do not dare to keep denigrating Veterans and brave American soldiers in ways you cannot even recognize – that is inexcusable. I know many of them and their families and I cannot abide the likes of you talking trash about these Americans who sacrifice that which you don’t even seem to understand (and it’s so completely lame of you that the best you can do with your own Freedom is to indulge yourself by in order for you to calling everyone a COMMIE!). They are thoughtful and intelligent enough to understand the compromised conflicts in which they are engaged, but there is no compromise regarding their lives and what they share. I guarantee you’d hold your childish tongue if in the same room with them.
BTW – Can you be that ignorant regarding the realities and the Law of Self-Defense? Are you truly saying that you would instantly shoot a child who breaks into your home on a prank (check Troop D logs for those facts) rather than have the courage to find out whether there does in fact exist “an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm”?
Yes, you lie, try to scare people and take rights away from others. Attack me, ignore the truth, Pure Allinsky rules for radicals.
A prepetual witch hunt and a return to the dark ages is all you get from being so closed minded, bigoted fearful of the truth. I proved my case and you respond in a predicted manner.
Mary,
Will you go on a Date with me? Or a picnic?
You’ve failed to prove a single point, but must admit that we do have good fun!
Please bring your special light into my life.
Why I could teach you to play the Ukulele! (and maybe Kevin would agree to accompany on the Mandolin)
So please: make this lonely soul soar with joy getting to know the real you!
OR just consider setting up shop at your favorite website WND dot com – alas, this trolling expedition has run its course.
Your anonymous admirer,
Con
Con,
Do you listen to Henry Rollins? That sounds like his letters. Lol.
Thanks,
Kevin
Thanks, Kevin –
I hoped you would not mind that I mentioned you, being part Troll myself at times…
Con-fused, post 10.The state of CT. requires all towns not just Woodstock or Windham County to take a safety course and thats all it is. Depending on where yuo take the course bepends on what YOU get out of it.A one day course at someones house VS. the same class taught at a R&G club are not even comparable.SAme program but much different environments.I have been involved in several of these training programs at various locations and the training has never fallen short.I have never seen anyone require an N.R.A. membership either. My brother in law is an instructer and has never been told to require this.I would say the safety course you and others took must have been effective or we would have more wild west shoot outs and people carelessly discharging their firearm. The last Firearm mishap i remember was at the Putnam F&G club. That was from a trained Police Officer. You should join the NRA because it seems that you own a few firearms and they seem to be the only ones protecting YOUR right to continue to have them. I know the .308 has flatter/longer trajectory and more ft.lbs. of energy than a .223.You hammer Mary but provide no facts yourself. I am a not enough guns owner myself but i cant figure where you stand,except that it may be ok for you to have guns but not others.
Con,
Not at all. I can be a pedantic SoB so I’m not exactly an angel in all these discussions either.
Thanks,
Kevin
Anon:
Not really sure what you just said.
But the hogwash/brainwashing that the NRA tries to sell really causes concern, much the same as the handwringing about newer/tougher gun laws.
The 2nd amendment makes a very clear reference to a militia in relationship to owing guns. It is screaming to be revised. Before you label me as someone who wants to take guns away, that’s not at all what I would like to see, nor would it be reasonable or even possible to do that.
The Constitution was designed with the specific intent of allowing future generations to change the Constitution. the authors of the Constitution did not proclaim the constitution to be infallible, or a holy documents as pseudo patriots like to cry out whenever anyone questions the Constitution as it stands presently.
What we need is stiffer penalties for those who steal firearms, use them to commit violent crimes. We need to have a genuine discussion about what sorts of firearms should be legal to posses, who should be allowed to posses them (i.e. NOT convicted felons), and how legal ownership should be monitored. Yet the NRA has the political might to make any discussion of firearms a perceived socialist/communist threat to the Constitution and our freedom in general.
Let’s get rid of the political posturing, hyperbole and fear-mongering that is always associated with legitimate concerns about guns in our society.
Anon,
Your message is kind of muddled and I’m not sure what your specific objections are or why. If you don’t mind explaining further, I can better respond because the tone seems hostile and accusatory.
I described my experience and made no assertions that were across-the-board. In 2 different states the only available, required safety course was given by the NRA and they did require membership. That is a cheap tactic.
The course was OK, but Driver’s Education courses are vastly more involved, time consuming, skill-testing and have an actual requirement of competency before passing. The Safety Courses were simply requisite materials taught during the requisite number of hours. There was no way to know if anyone was even listening (of course, I believe they were i’m just pointing out a flaw).
As long as participants sat still with their eyes open during all the lectures and, I think, pass a very simple, easy quiz then everyone was ‘Certified’. That there has been no shooting accidents or the like is absolutely not proof that everyone is qualified or safe.
Check out YouTube for an hour or so – there are so many videos of unsafe gun activity at gun ranges, in backyards, etc. one video is taken by a boy of his father shooting his pistol – I could see that the father, when done, did NOT check his weapon in any way and as he turned to talk to his son, the pistol discharged into the camera on the boy’s shoulder! – that is merely one example of dozens and dozens where safety is non existent.
That my ‘classmates’ were certified as being qualified to carry concealed was arbitrary and there was no evidence that they, or me for that matter, knew the law well enough, could shoot proficiently or would practice every safety measure possible just because they heard them described. Most participants, for example, picked up the model gun that was passed around and instantly placed their finger on the trigger – it is supposed to be on the guard and never on the trigger unless and until the gun is pointed at the target and ready to fire. I could go on and on.
I will never join the NRA – they have lost their way completely and are now merely another extremist right-wing lobby and are bought-and-paid for. I am protected by the Constitution and I have always had full faith in that document and in American Citizens – the combination prevails. That means I believe in Equality. Period. It is not too much to ask that gun owners know what they are doing and practice Safety with scrupulous vigilance.
As far as mary goes, if you aren’t bored by them and read my comments again you will see that I argue against the way she thinks and her dishonest manner of argument, as well as her judgment of her Fellow Americans, which is no Citizens prerogative. Her tone is one of smug superiority based on dishonest and self-serving assumptions that she knows exactly what we all think and believe and she is simply wrong.
Here is another occassion where the ar 15 was used as a defense weapon and saved many lives. Your commie media won’t report and you will notice, the criminals were not 11 year old pranksters. There many million occurences yearly where guns save lives.http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/16/surveillance-camera-captures-the-dramatic-moment-a-security-guard-used-an-ar-15-to-fend-off-armed-holdup/
On a side note, ran ito a Trooper that i know well from troop d and asked him about con’s claim of an 11 year old crime ring. He said who ever said that is an idiot. He enlightened me that there are several very organized crime rings with sophisticated fencing operations in our area. He used an example of a Bungay Hill man who came home to a burglary in progress and with his own gun held the out of state burglars at bay until the s p arrived. He also told me that there are several national gangs including the ms13 operating in our area. He told me that even off duty most cops carry at least two guns.
I believe con the commie was talking about f troop or something else to spread false information to try to confuse the uninformed. I will call it commie propaganda.
wow – to have to repeat what I’ve already written is getting tedious, mary. You seem incapable of ever actually proving your blanket statements and so you have zero credibility. I guess your solution to this inability to support with evidence or examples (never mind actually PROVE) what you assert is to reverse-engineer the comments of anyone disagreeing with or criticizing you.
Mary you always get it wrong and the comments are still posted, so just read it again before you inventing these self-serving, fantasy statements making up new quotes of what I wrote.
“11 year old crime ring”? That is flat-out not what I said, but another example of how you must use exaggeration and hyperbole (signs of insecurity). Teens have done prank burglars in Woodstock. I know of a couple. Are they all reported? I don’t know, but even disputing this is kind of a sad thing for you to be doing because it shows how fixated you are.
It’s also incredibly petty of you and quite typical of your methods. My mention is about not knowing who has broken into your home and and any responsible gun owner has a moral duty they should really think about ahead of time.
Having a gun in the home is an enormous responsibility and I sure better have thought through as much as possible regarding what I will do and under what circumstances.
Mary, your little conspiracy ideas are sad and you come across in a very bad light the way you express them. Your obsessive fixations are especially troubling – why you would focus so intently, spend so much of your time and energy and allow someone else’s comment to basically ‘own you’? You deserve better than that – allowing a minor blog argument to take up so much of your waking thoughts that you even interview the Police.
If you can prove that no teen has bur glared a Woodstock house in the past 10 or so years, do it and stop wasting so much talk already. Fixating on something so trivial is just not healthy. Had I known you would react this way, I would have left you out of it. It’s not worth it, mary.
INCIDENT NUMBERS? As far as your unproven, unsupported ‘fantasy fact’ about ‘millions’ of incidences where someone used a gun to save a life and or prevent/interrupt a crime, etc., that fantasy fact is a rank exaggeration invented by highly biased sources who know their self-serving fantasy fact will be instantly believed by the very group who disbelieves anything reported by the liberal media.
Sure, they do happen, but the number is low given our population. Like you, plenty of groups with access to many media (easy these days) emphasize and repeat these stories vigorously, so if the number were ‘millions’ or even 1/20th of that, there would be hundreds of different stories splashed everywhere, every day, 24/7. Just look it up and use that good rule of ‘No biased sources allowed’. Of course I know they do occur – I do have a concealed carry permit.
Mary, when I turn away from this screen, the discussion is out of my head. I’d rather not engage with you if you fixate so intensely that I end up pitying a person who represents the thinking that harms this great nation.
Con, i cant sit and watch You-Tube its against my religion ,but i am glad you brought up drivers ed. those classes are fantastic training compared to firearm training. Infact so good every time it snows we have to remind people to drive carefully,leave early but yet they still get into an accident.The FD’s have special extracation equipment to cut steering wheels and roofs off of cars, but no bullet or or shotgun removal gadgets.People are so good at driving we now need brakes that dont lock up,traction control so we cant burnout,airbags in every crevice of the car all to protect us from cars that get better gas milage,smaller engines,more power. cameras for backing up because people forget to look behind their car or dont know how to use mirrors. When in all reality they protect us from the loose nut behind the wheel.every holiday we have a full compliment of police patroling the highway and byways looking for for p[eople who brake the law by drunk driving,speeding,falling asleep at the wheel.The list goes on& on&on. Really con! driver ed is so much better? CSP even put on the news the holiday and storm statistics of tickets,dui’s,accidents,fatality’s. No mention about guns though.